O's two "Win Now" guys in the top management positions.

[DrungoHazewood]

We won't be able to develop a core that can compete during Duquette's tenure without major trades or FA signings.

We won't be able to sign enough free agents to compete, not on the O's budget, nor with the unfortunate fact that free agents can choose where they sign.

We won't be able to trade enough prospects to compete, since they have almost no prospects above A ball and only a handful of highly regarded players at that level or below.

Therefore, the conclusion is that they shouldn't be trying to win right now, but instead to build an organization that can sustainably win in the future.

[Hank Scorpio]

You're always rebuilding organizationally.

It's a constant, perpetual, nonstop necessity. The only way this organization will be able to compete is to outdo the division on the scouting & developmental side. They can probably spend on par with Toronto.

I'll be very interested in seeing how Duquette attempts to infiltrate the Latin American market in a 3 year span of time. That's no easy undertaking, especially with Peter G. Angelos having to sign off on everything. He's a busy man, you know.

[JTrea81]

Of course the problem is that essentially no bad team has ever signed 4, 5, 6 top free agents in one offseason.

You don't need that many. 2-3 would suffice.

[Frobby]

We won't be able to develop a core that can compete during Duquette's tenure without major trades or FA signings.

There isn't enough time nor talent in this organization to do that.

You can't sign a bunch of 16-18 year old kids and expect them to be in the majors the next year.

It's going to take time, and that's time where we'll be wasting production of this core group of players.

I think Duquette will make some moves, just not the kind of moves you want. He'll sign some free agents who he considers to be complementary players who can help the team, not the Fielders and Wilsons of the world. And (for now) he'll trade for some guys who he thinks are undervalued, not guys who are huge name superstars. He's more likely to try to identify the next Carlos Pena or David Ortiz, than acquire the last one. Duquette isn't shy about pulling the trigger for Pedro Martinez or Manny Ramirez, but only when it's time to do it. Duq had been GM in Boston for 4 years before he traded for Pedro, and 6 years before he signed Manny. Before he ever got there, he made a lot of other moves that were lower profile, but improved the team.

[Flosman]

You don't need that many. 2-3 would suffice.

Point of parliamentary procedure? What is your cutoff date on when the O's have to "commit to winning"? Not to dance on your grave or anything but if you keep your word your days here are numbered. It was obvious that short of some unusual opportunity Buck and Dan have no plans to overspend in the vertern FA market. Honestly he answered almost all of the questions about the same has I would expect AM to have answered them.

[JTrea81]

Point of parliamentary procedure? What is your cutoff date on when the O's have to "commit to winning"? Not to dance on your grave or anything but if you keep your word your days here are numbered. It was obvious that short of some unusual opportunity Buck and Dan have no plans to overspend in the vertern FA market. Honestly he answered almost all of the questions about the same has I would expect AM to have answered them.

They have the offseason, so pitchers and catchers reporting.

[DrungoHazewood]

You don't need that many. 2-3 would suffice.

Just so long as you can trade Nolan Reimold for a #2 starter, and you're willing to flip Machado and/or Schoop for more short-term help. So 2-3 would suffice if you can overwhelmingly win some trades MacPhail-style, or trade the only potential stars on the farm for immediate and expensive MLB help.

[wildcard]

I agree the Duke did not sound like a "win now" guy. He sounds more like the VP in charge of scouting and player development. Buck sounds like the guy that will be in charge of the major league acquisitions. Buck said we have our plan for the off season all laid out. Yes, Duke may execute it but Buck seems behind it. No big name free agents this year. Add pitching depth and a few complimentary players to the offense. It sounds like the O's core will stay in tack. It sounds like there is a bigger chance of Jones being extended than traded.

[JTrea81]

Just so long as you can trade Nolan Reimold for a #2 starter, and you're willing to flip Machado and/or Schoop for more short-term help. So 2-3 would suffice if you can overwhelmingly win some trades MacPhail-style, or trade the only potential stars on the farm for immediate and expensive MLB help.

I'd be willing to empty the farm so to speak because there isn't much there to begin with. And if I've got good scouting and development, all of those players can be replaced in a short time.

If there's anything Orioles fans should have learned it's to not depend on anybody in the farm system to be a contributor to the ML team.

The farm system is there for depth and succession options. That's it.

If Manny Machado or Dylan Bundy were to be traded or completely bust, the Orioles shouldn't have to be contracted, and some people make it out to be the opposite.

And if those players who are unproven, are traded for premium talent to win now and you do win now, where's the loss really? And then you just draft and sign more guys to build depth in your farm and replace those prospects you lost.

[Sports Guy]

I'd be willing to empty the farm so to speak because there isn't much there to begin with. And if I've got good scouting and development, all of those players can be replaced in a short time.

If there's anything Orioles fans should have learned it's to not depend on anybody in the farm to be a contributor.

The farm system is there for depth and succession options. That's it.

Emptying the farm system is one thing...Doing it in an idiotic way is another.

[JTrea81]

Emptying the farm system is one thing...Doing it in an idiotic way is another.

Well certain players become available for a reason and usually it's because they are getting closer to FA and won't extend with their current team or will be too expensive to extend. The Miguel Cabrera type situation is very rare when you have a player with a majority of prime years left on the trade market, and his was behavior related. Teams simply do not offer up young premium players that have 3 or more years left on their contract or under team control. And that's who you want us to target. Situations like that are extremely rare and also extremely expensive when you do trade.

Just look at what Arizona was asking for Justin Upton...Often the price is prohibitive.

In that case you can wait until those players with two years of control or less hit FA when you'll have a ton of competition and actual choice of where they want to play, or you can force them to be part of your team regardless of your standing by trading for them.

In the Orioles' position right now with FAs supposedly not wanting to take our money and having to overpay to get them here, trades are our best option.

And you won't get talent unless you trade talented players.

[LOUDOUN_BIRD]

OK, so we're in a "win now" mode.

Peter Angelos is still the owner.

John Stockstill is still director of player development.

Dave Stockstill is still director of international scouting.

DD may have a say on who gets hired to replace Jordan, but Angelos will ultimately sign off on that.

I really don't see anything different.

Beers to you! Yes I have been a little caught up in it till I read your "honor roll" call....those name make me shiver....

Well I guess the difference is Buck and DD....is that enough...

[.500_OR_BETTER]

This will be different.

The O's have gone from two "Win in the future" guys. MacPhail and Trembley.

To a "Win in the future" guy in MacPhail and a "Win Now" guy in Buck.

To Two " Win Now" guys in Duke and Buck.

Buck oversaw the building of the Diamondbacks and in the second season won 100 games.

Duke took over the Red Sox and won the division in his second year. (Actually the first full year)

In both cases it was not the farm system that did it for them. It was a lot of player movement.

If these two guys can get on the same page and convince Peter to let them make the moves the "Win Now" approach might be back in style for the O's.

I don't know it will work but the style could be different.

They both have good track records but don't forget that this is the AL East, the division we play in is nothing compared to what Buck and Dan both dealt with in their respective times.

This is an extremely chalenging job given what we have in place here already and then what we have to compete with in NY, Tampa, and Boston.

[El Gordo]

There's a difference between competitive and contending. I think this is lost on many. The O's were competitive in Sept. 2011. They need to deepen and upgrade the quality of SP to be competitive in 2012. Also a good OBP bat will help get the offense to league average or above. To contend they need to add, in addition, a TOR SP and a MOO bat.

[DrungoHazewood]

The farm system is there for depth and succession options. That's it.

That puts you at odds with pretty much everyone in a position of power in any major league organization.

The farm system, especially for teams with a finite budget, are THE pipeline of talent that keeps the team competitive year after year. Supplying both a steady stream of major league players, and trade chips. Even the Yanks have 7-8 of their key players that came straight from their farm system.