On the Record: Better pitchers available that could be had for free instead of Eveland

[weams]

No no. Tony. Meant to include his quote about "earning" respect.

Oh. I disagree with Tony sometime. But he is my good friend. He is respected by many baseball authorities, he's a darn good judge of talent.

He is also a War Hero. And a Spook. And he knows where you live.

He is never a 12 year old.

Even if he riles some people up that I also call friends.

[weams]

Many of you guys watch actual baseball in person from a critical perspective. Many of you watch minor league baseball as well. In person. Many of you follow high school prospects. And some of you talk with real scouts about them on a regular basis.

So does Tony.

[Barnaby Graves]

How much will Zach Duke make?

I wouldn't give him a guaranteed contract so if the answer ends up being "$X on a guaranteed contract," I skip him and sign one of the other names in this thread. Someone posted Brandon Dickson, a guy with good PCL success. Go get him.

Hahaha, no kidding. I've never seen so many fragile flowers who are getting their panties in a wad over this.

People tend to get annoyed when you call them out for questioning the acquisition of a player with a career WAR of -1.1, SO/BB of 1.32, etc. etc. They're right. He isn't a very good pitcher.

On the other hand if Duquette thinks the players we traded were dead weight, i.e. on the outs anyway, then it doesn't really matter to me. I'd be more bothered by Eveland getting a guaranteed contract.

[sangar]

EPIC THREAD

And man are there a bunch of 'keyboard tough guys' catching feelings...

Okay, I picked this page to read to get a feeling for the thread. I avoided the first Eveland thread as it seemed like overkill overreaction to a reasonable trade. But with what you are saying, I've got to go back and read this whole thing.

[weams]

Okay, I picked this page to read to get a feeling for the thread. I avoided the first Eveland thread as it seemed like overkill overreaction to a reasonable trade. But with what you are saying, I've got to go back and read this whole thing.

MatthewW is the real insider btw. 2 for 2 or 3 for 3.

[allstar1579]

Nice response. Thanks for taking it in the original spirit and for explaining yourself. I tend to agree that this trade most likely won't change the orioles fortunes, but adding starting pitching depth for almost nothing is a good thing in my opinion.

Yep, this is pretty much how I feel about it.

Another way to look at it, would you rather trade a guy about to be DFA (Henson) and a guy that will probably never make it to the majors (I'll give that a 65% chance it doesn't happen) for a guy, or would you rather go out and spend $3-6m per year signing one of these BP retreads we have been lately? As much as we've all complained about the BP signings, this was a cheap way to add a piece for that reason with some ML experience, and lets us spend that couple million somewhere else.

[sangar]

Well, that wasn't as entertaining as I'd hoped.

Come on guys, someone is actually quiting in protest? Haha. It's not like it was a proscription list. No one is being exiled to Canada. Yet.

[sangar]

MatthewW is the real insider btw. 2 for 2 or 3 for 3.

Yes, I remember.

[Chavez Ravine]

Well, that wasn't as entertaining as I'd hoped.

Come on guys, someone is actually quiting in protest? Haha. It's not like it was a proscription list. No one is being exiled to Canada. Yet.

HA! I randomly picked the page with MathewW's post as well, and was almost sucked in, but then restrained myself. Thank you for taking the bullet for me! Of course, now I am posting in this thread...it won't go away....this thread is an entity!

[Barnaby Graves]

As much as we've all complained about the BP signings, this was a cheap way to add a piece for that reason with some ML experience, and lets us spend that couple million somewhere else.

Except Dana Eveland isn't even good depth and over the course of his "major league experience" he's sucked.

[Bradysburns]

To me, the Eveland deal is not a big one, in any event. But I am slightly not in favor:

1) You could easily replace or outdo Eveland's 2012 production with a relatively cheap, veteran FA such as Javier Vasquez, Bartolo Colon, or even Erik Bedard. You wouldn't give up anything in terms of the farm (not sure of the Elias implications here, in terms of losing future draft picks?).

2) He's very, very unproven at the MLB level. Our rotation isn't lacking for young potential; it's lacking for proven MLB performance.

3) This whole idea of "stockpiling" pitchers is nefarious. Stockpiling poop just leaves you with a bigger pile of poop. I'm not likening Eveland to poop, mind you. But depth for depth's sake is pointless. What we need is quality depth. And it remains a big question mark as to what type of depth Eveland represents.

That said, I hardly care about this trade (unless Martin blows it up at the MLB level some day). I'm with the other guys who are willing to give DD the benefit of the doubt. I will say that I would side with his judgment over mine when it comes to almost complete unknowns (to me) like Henson and Martin. Our farm system pretty much sucks, so if we can trade away lower-level prospects for MLB contributors, I'm not going to ***** too much about it.

[allstar1579]

Except Dana Eveland isn't even good depth and over the course of his "major league experience" he's sucked.

Ok...I'll bite, basically to illustrate the root of the problem with this thread.

How would you know that Eveland isn't good depth? Who is better? Jakubaskas? Some more expensive pitcher that would take away from the ability to sign an actual impact player? How would you know that Eveland isn't better than anything we have in AAA? And don't give me some weak WAR number and think you've justified something because WAR is descriptive, not predictive and if you can't tell me anything about what or how he throws and how it might fit with our team and ballpark then you can move right along.

Point being...don't look at his numbers and tell me "OH NOES, WE SUX AGAIN." Especially when his stuff is better than most if not all of the fodder in the minors. When we have 2 guys go down in April, you'll be really happy you have Eveland in there instead of some guy you've never heard of that's never pitched above AA.

This transaction is such a minor blip that it's comical how much overreaction is going on.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Ok...I'll bite, basically to illustrate the root of the problem with this thread.

How would you know that Eveland isn't good depth? Who is better? Jakubaskas? Some more expensive pitcher that would take away from the ability to sign an actual impact player? How would you know that Eveland isn't better than anything we have in AAA? And don't give me some weak WAR number and think you've justified something because WAR is descriptive, not predictive and if you can't tell me anything about what or how he throws and how it might fit with our team and ballpark then you can move right along.

Point being...don't look at his numbers and tell me "OH NOES, WE SUX AGAIN." Especially when his stuff is better than most if not all of the fodder in the minors. When we have 2 guys go down in April, you'll be really happy you have Eveland in there instead of some guy you've never heard of that's never pitched above AA.

This transaction is such a minor blip that it's comical how much overreaction is going on.

Yep. Especially by many of the usually sane and logical posters. I suspect it's more to do with frustration with the overall lack of other moves than the singularity and merits of this one.

[allstar1579]

To me, the Eveland deal is not a big one, in any event. But I am slightly not in favor:

1) You could easily replace or outdo Eveland's 2012 production with a relatively cheap, veteran FA such as Javier Vasquez, Bartolo Colon, or even Erik Bedard. You wouldn't give up anything in terms of the farm (not sure of the Elias implications here, in terms of losing future draft picks?).

2) He's very, very unproven at the MLB level. Our rotation isn't lacking for young potential; it's lacking for proven MLB performance.

3) This whole idea of "stockpiling" pitchers is nefarious. Stockpiling poop just leaves you with a bigger pile of poop. I'm not likening Eveland to poop, mind you. But depth for depth's sake is pointless. What we need is quality depth. And it remains a big question mark as to what type of depth Eveland represents.

That said, I hardly care about this trade (unless Martin blows it up at the MLB level some day). I'm with the other guys who are willing to give DD the benefit of the doubt. I will say that I would side with his judgment over mine when it comes to almost complete unknowns (to me) like Henson and Martin. Our farm system pretty much sucks, so if we can trade away lower-level prospects for MLB contributors, I'm not going to ***** too much about it.

I can tell you why it should shift to neutral from slightly not in favor. Vazquez, Colon, and Bedard are all going to cost upwards of $4m per year. Eveland makes $400k. That is $3.6m to spend on IFA, put towards Cespedes, sign Fielder, or whatever it is that they decide to do with that money.

[allstar1579]

Yep. Especially by many of the usually sane and logical posters. I suspect it's more to do with frustration with the overall lack of other moves than the singualarity and merits of this one.

Yeah that's pretty much what I chalked it up to, just general frustration. Happens every year in some form, just seems more hostile this year. What Tony was basically trying to say I think was that this move is pretty much a non-issue, it doesn't hurt to have a little more depth around, and people need to step away from the ledge a bit.