Nestor & Flanny speak on rally

[Boca Bird]

That's just the thing, it loses a lot of the oooomph if you can't put the "-Edmund Burke" behind it. I was simply letting you know, though, wasn't picking on you or anything.

Its cool.

I'm not offended or anything. I knew that there was some dispute to the exact wording of the actual quotation,that is, it may have been paraphrased, but had never heard that it may have been falsely attributed to Burke. I thought some version of the quotation is contained in Burke's "Thoughts on the Cause of the Present Discontents"

9 years of losing has turned me into a hardcore discontent

[RichMGH]

As far as today goes, I DO NOT plan to leave at 5:08.

I'm going to watch the last game I plan on attending (or at least paying for) until Pete shows me he cares. Im staying and enjoying an afternoon in the best ballpark in America.

PS...why the heck am I suddenly shady???

[erb8472]

My only problem with it is that it's a collossal waste of time. We've experienced first hand the immense ego and hubris of Peter Angelos, and this will not make a dent. Now that it's possibly going to screw with how the team feels about their fan base, their support, well, I don't like the prospect of this. Especially when we want players to come here next year. FA's might balk even MORE now.

Not to mention it would give PA an excuse for not bringing in quality FA talent.

"Well we tried to get some guys in here, but they were concerned with fan support, etc."

[Fan4Life]

My only problem with it is that it's a collossal waste of time. We've experienced first hand the immense ego and hubris of Peter Angelos, and this will not make a dent. Now that it's possibly going to screw with how the team feels about their fan base, their support, well, I don't like the prospect of this. Especially when we want players to come here next year. FA's might balk even MORE now.

Sometimes, for things to get better in the long run, they have to get worse in the short run.

[The Wedge]

Its cool.

I'm not offended or anything. I knew that there was some dispute to the exact wording of the actual quotation,that is, it may have been paraphrased, but had never heard that it may have been falsely attributed to Burke. I thought some version of the quotation is contained in Burke's "Thoughts on the Cause of the Present Discontents"

I had heard that too, but I read this paper recently that not only tried to trace the origins, it documented as many of the variations of the quote they could find. There had to have been 50-60 variations, which is never a good sign.

[Cokeman]

I'm always pretty naive when it comes to things like this, but I don't understand those who say this is a protest against the owner and not the players.

Why are you protesting the owner? It sounds like its because he doesn't put a winning team on the field. As far as I know, the players make up that team that is on the field. So, aren't you protesting that those players aren't good enough?

Do all of those players know if you are protesting FOR them? I doubt it. Maybe Tejada does, maybe Bedard does, maybe Markakis does, maybe some others do.

But, what about Gibbons? Does he know whether you are protesting for him or against him? What about Penn? What about Loewen? What about Millar? What about Patterson? What about any player that isn't considered a star?

For me, it just comes down to if you protest the owner, then you have to be protesting against the team that is on the field...and I'm not convinced that all of those players know if you are for them individually or against them.

[The Wedge]

Yes, I thought it was strange that you were using the fact that I was making an assumption for your argument and then going right ahead and making another assumpiton, also for your argument. I noticed.

You didn't, though. You totally missed that I said this: "But in that vein of what we think we can guess is going on" right before I made the assumption. Had you seen that, perhaps you might not have gotten all "AHA! GOT YOU NOW!" on me. Because when I saw said got you know post, I just stared for a second and thought...he didn't read everything.

[RichMGH]

Not to mention it would give PA an excuse for not bringing in quality FA talent.

"Well we tried to get some guys in here, but they were concerned with fan support, etc."

That would be the Pete way to spin stuff.

I wonder if he's like this in his personal life...nothing ever being his fault???

[GlennGulliver11]

I don't think Cubs fans accept losing at all. I mean honestly who accepts losing????

Cubs fans just love their team, and are going to support them no matter what. That doesn't mean they accept losing, that means they are good fans.

Why We Like to Lose: On Being a Cubs Fan in the Heterotopia of Wrigley Field

Juffer South Atlantic Quarterly.2006; 105: 289-301

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http://www.zulkey.com/diary_archive_051204.html

Dear Zulk,

Could you explain to non-Chicagoans the difference between a White Sox fan and a Cubs fan? Is a child born into one following or the other? Why or why not? Discuss.

Most Cubs fans don't seem to like baseball so much as they like the idea of baseball, and Wrigley's reputation as the cathedral of baseball, in addition to being a rather grotesque pile of media hype, has a lot more to do with its 'world's biggest beer garden' aspects than the inherent quality of the park (which, after all, is a bandbox). But beyond that, Cubs fans seem to think it's cute to lose. They even have a name for it: they're "lovable losers". They almost delight in their haplessness.

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http://www.athomeplate.com/calamity.shtml

Calamity on Clark Street: Why the Cubs Will Remain (Lovable) Losers

They accept losing and expect losing. As friend of a Chicago born Cubs fan, I'm told he knew Tim Flannery's ball would go through Leon Durham's legs in 1984. He knew Sandberg would ground out with the tying run on 2nd in 1989. He knew Javy Lopez would homer in the bottom of the 9th and Terry Mulholland would throw it away in the bottom of the 10th in 1998. He knew Steve Bartman would outstretch Moises Alou to catch that foul ball in 2003.

He knew because he knew the Cubs lose. The way they lose is what makes it entertaining to be a Cubs fan. It's just what they do. He calls Red Sox fans puzzies since his team had an extra decade on them before 2004.

[RichMGH]

LOL. You guys kill me. Yeah, I wasn't concerned about the dwindling attendance figures over the last 5 years and all of the losing, but that protest really scared me.

If today causes any free agent to feel that way, Nestor is better than we all give me credit for.

Oh please God, don't let that be the case.

[Fan4Life]

I'm always pretty naive when it comes to things like this, but I don't understand those who say this is a protest against the owner and not the players.

Why are you protesting the owner? It sounds like its because he doesn't put a winning team on the field. As far as I know, the players make up that team that is on the field. So, aren't you protesting that those players aren't good enough?

Do all of those players know if you are protesting FOR them? I doubt it. Maybe Tejada does, maybe Bedard does, maybe Markakis does, maybe some others do.

But, what about Gibbons? Does he know whether you are protesting for him or against him? What about Penn? What about Loewen? What about Millar? What about Patterson? What about any player that isn't considered a star?

For me, it just comes down to if you protest the owner, then you have to be protesting against the team that is on the field...and I'm not convinced that all of those players know if you are for them individually or against them.

Yes, lets not send a message that the product on the field is substandard and hurt anyones feelings... I'm sure being 29 games out hasn't been noticed by anyone.... for 9 years...

Our owner COULD field a winning product if he chose to, he chooses not to. We don't like his choice.

[BigSkip]

What if the scores 10-0 one way or another at this point? Masses of people leaving isn't going to seem like anything.

Also the Orioles don't have to capture this TV moment, especially since they know when it's going to occur.

The Orioles aren't the only media source at the game. The Tigers guys will be there too... Among other places.

[The Wedge]

That would be the Pete way to spin stuff.

I wonder if he's like this in his personal life...nothing ever being his fault???

He's a very good lawyer. He made a lot of money finding ways to make sure his clients always came up looking like roses.

[SurhoffRules]

As far as today goes, I DO NOT plan to leave at 5:08.

I'm going to watch the last game I plan on attending (or at least paying for) until Pete shows me he cares. Im staying and enjoying an afternoon in the best ballpark in America.

PS...why the heck am I suddenly shady???

Thank you. I for one planned on going to this game a long time ago, as in, when it was announced as a make up date. I'm going with some close friends of the family who are from Detroit. As much as I don't care for Angelos I just hope we don't get berated or poked fun at for being there to enjoy this ballgame. The picketing bothers me because it places the two types of fans, the ones who want to go to the game and enjoy it because it's the end of the season and the ones who are so fed up with mismanagement that they would like to actively dissent, at odds with one another. Hate angelos, not your fellow fans.

[RichMGH]

The Orioles aren't the only media source at the game. The Tigers guys will be there too... Among other places.

...and I don't even think the O's are covering this game. Anyone know for sure?