Tim Kurkjian: Arrieta and Matusz looking good

[24fps]

I do get the point...I just don't care.

He got what he deserved and that's it. You crying about it isn't going to change it.

And why do you think others were piling on? Could it be because they saw the same thing I did? Perhaps, you are just being a little too sensitive because you are older than the poster ended up saying he is?

Maybe they're piling on because atomic is better at getting everybody running around in circles that even JTrea was.

Would you like to clarify the bolded part?

[CA-ORIOLE]

I'm older than you (54) but I didn't really take SG's comment as referring to atomic's age, but rather his "when I was a lad" argument. But whatever. If we are going to play it that way, then I will say this, my years and years of experience as a baseball fan says that you don't count out a 25-year old kid because he has a bad year after a couple of pretty good ones. atomic's post mentions that the first game he attended Dave McNally was on the mound. Well, Dave McNally stunk in 1967 (70 ERA+) but the O's stuck with him and he won 20 games the next four years. He mentions Paul Blair was the CF. Blair had a .595 OPS in 1968, but the O's stuck with him and he was an all-star the following season. Even good players sometimes have setbacks. I am not saying Matusz is going to be as good as McNally, and certainly his 2011 season was even worse than McNally's 1967 season, but the principle is the same -- if a player has had some major league success, you don't count him out after one bad year. Or, one bad year and a somewhat disappointing 2 innings on March 5th the following season.

Sound logic Frobby, maybe that's the response he should have got. That said I don't see atomic's anecdotal argument about the old Oriole's teams defensive value being any more idiotic than Mike Gallo's (or a lot of others arguments to a lesser extent) analysis. I just don't recall those those guys idiocy being called out because of their age (and is it turns out atomic isn't really old enough to remember any of those teams/players anyways).....which apparrently makes him a liar.

But the next time a catch a younger poster making a stupid comment/analysis on here I'll tell him to go back to playing video games on the couch as not to burn any more brain cells.

[Sports Guy]

No I didn't act like I was a genius because I saw baseball in the 70's. I am saying a lot of people on here have never seen what I conisider how you play baseball. Which is above average defense. Great fundementals. Throwing strikes. Making contact. hitting behind the runner. If I could see just well played baseball I would't mind the losing so much.

I feel people on here underrate defense. I don't need to see stats to know that Adam Jones is not that good of Center Fielder. His range is not all that great. But stats are never going to tell the whole story on fielding. You actually need too see people play.

1) Some underrate defense...In a community with many people, there are going to be people that underrate and overrate many things. You acting like you are some expert because you saw Brooks play doesn't make your argument good.

2) Orioles team defense has nothing to do with your poor Matusz comments.

[Frobby]

I never said to count him out after one ST game. I said if he keep pitching like he did last night this Spring his mlb career might be over.

You were a bit more definitive than that:

If throws like he did tonight for the rest of the spring his career is done.

I disagree on three counts:

1. I don't think he pitched as badly as the box score reads.

2. I don't expect any pitcher to pitch the same all spring as he does in his first outing. He is likely to get sharper, and for sure he will mix in more breaking stuff as the spring progresses. That is normal.

3. In any event, if he has a lousy spring, it doesn't necessarily mean his career is over. It just means he starts the year in AAA and tries to regroup.

Let's not argue about it further. Let's just see how things progress from here.

[atomic]

Sound logic Frobby, maybe that's the response he should have got. That said I don't see atomic's anecdotal argument about the old Oriole's teams defensive value being any more idiotic than Mike Gallo's (or a lot of others arguments to a lesser extent). I just don't recall those those guys idiocy being called out because of their age (and is it turns out atomic isn't really old enough to remember any of those teams/players anyways).....which apparrently makes him a liar.

But the next time a catch a younger poster making a stupid comment/analysis on here I'll tell him to go back to playing video games on the couch as not to burn any more brain cells.

I was 8 when I saw my first Orioles game in 73.. I was certainly old enough to remember the players on the team. Grant Jackson was my favorite player.

[luismatos4prez]

This argument is silly. atomic just likes to make exaggerated statements to make a point. The point is often valid, but he exaggerates it to the point of ridiculousness to try and get the point across and it just looks stupid. Like when he predicted a 50 win season at best in 2012 last month.

[TiredofLosing20]

I feel people on here underrate defense. I don't need to see stats to know that Adam Jones is not that good of Center Fielder. His range is not all that great. But stats are never going to tell the whole story on fielding. You actually need too see people play.

I know I get to see pretty good baseball about 50 times a year when the O's play the Rays, Red Sox and Yankees.

Actually the stats generally agree with you.. I am pretty sure no one would say that stats (especially defensive stats) tell the whole story. You are pulling stuff out of your butt.

[Mr Snuffleupagus]

I was 8 when I saw my first Orioles game in 73.. I was certainly old enough to remember the players on the team. Grant Jackson was my favorite player.

[allstar1579]

This argument is silly. atomic just likes to make exaggerated statements to make a point. The point is often valid, but he exaggerates it to the point of ridiculousness to try and get the point across and it just looks stupid. Like when he predicted a 50 win season at best in 2012 last month.

Anti-JTrea?

The universe is trying to correct itself.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I was 8 when I saw my first Orioles game in 73.. I was certainly old enough to remember the players on the team. Grant Jackson was my favorite player.

Ok, fair enough. Still pretty young. I was about 13 then FWIW, I actually think those teams in 1972-1975 or so may have been one of the best defensive teams in baseball ...ever. So, I essentially agree with your observation about the great defense (and pitching) of those teams. That said (and as Frobby noted), you do realize we fell off from those great 1969-1971 seasons because of lack of offense. There has to be performance/balance on both ends. Even the 1927 and 1961 Yankeees had very good pitching / defense.

Brooks will always be my favorite Oriole, but I was very fond of all of them and really liked Bobby Grich in those 1973-1977 years befeore I joined the Navy.

[Stotle]

But the next time a catch a younger poster making a stupid comment/analysis on here I'll tell him to go back to playing video games on the couch as not to burn any more brain cells.

Maybe everyone should get back on the couch and play more video games...

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[CA-ORIOLE]

Maybe everyone should get back on the couch and play more video games...

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Yeah, I've read a lot of this before and actually agree with it. Interesting that vocabulary has actually decreased significantly over the years but there is no doubt that games (and technology in general) can improve creativity and cognitive ability in "many" ways. I'm not sure that's germane to this discussion though.

[Frobby]

Ok, fair enough. Still pretty young. I was about 13 then FWIW, I actually think those teams in 1972-1975 or so may have been one of the best defensive teams in baseball ...ever. So, I essentially agree with your observation about the great defense (and pitching) of those teams.

It is pretty hard to argue with the proposition. In 1973-75, each of Grich, Belanger, Robinson and Blair won 3 straight Gold Gloves. Robinson and Blair also won in '72. So, that's 14 Gold Gloves for one team in a four-year span. Granted, GG voting is unreliable, but the stats back up that those were 4 of the best fielders ever to share the same field.

Nevertheless, you could put those four guys on defense behind our current pitching staff and they still wouldn't be Palmer, McNally and Cuellar.

[scOtt]

Yeah, I've read a lot of this before and actually agree with it. Interesting that vocabulary has actually decreased significantly over the years but there is no doubt that games (and technology in general) can improve creativity and cognitive ability in "many" ways. I'm not sure that's germane to this discussion though.

Germans?

Never mind. He's on a roll.

[CA-ORIOLE]

It is pretty hard to argue with the proposition. In 1973-75, each of Grich, Belanger, Robinson and Blair won 3 straight Gold Gloves. Robinson and Blair also won in '72. So, that's 14 Gold Gloves for one team in a four-year span. Granted, GG voting is unreliable, but the stats back up that those were 4 of the best fielders ever to share the same field.

Nevertheless, you could put those four guys on defense behind our current pitching staff and they still wouldn't be Palmer, McNally and Cuellar.

Yep, I think Grich (who always impressed me) made a significant difference over Davey Johnson and the others were still at/near the top of their game defensively in those years. Of course we also had guys like Baylor, Singleton and Lee may who as I recall weren't very good.