J'Accuse

[ledzepp8]

I find it funny that you say "there's no question" on what is clearly an opinion. Almost as funny? That you call home/road splits meager when they are the basis for that ESPN article that has been quoted in this thread.

I can't seriously be the only rational person on this board that believes the BJ's weren't stealing signs last night right?

Regardless of whether or not the Blue Jays were stealing signs, those folks you deem "irrational" are at least supporting their opinion with an actual argument. All you've done is come into the thread and construct a strawman and ignored people when they called you on it.

[waroriole]

I find it funny that you say "there's no question" on what is clearly an opinion. Almost as funny? That you call home/road splits meager when they are the basis for that ESPN article that has been quoted in this thread.

I can't seriously be the only rational person on this board that believes the BJ's weren't stealing signs last night right?

I don't know if they were or not, but all anyone has really been doing is considering the possibility that they were. It could be a coincidence, or it could be true.

[sangar]

How is tailoring the field to suit your teams strengths and weaknesses the same as using high tech equipment to steal signs from an off field vantage point. Most likely they have someone with a CC video feed from the CF camera, relaying the signs to a plant in the stands via some of ear piece device, who then signals the players.

My fault. I should have been clear. I was referring to the air conditioners blowing in-and-out. Using technology to steal signs is altogether different.

[sangar]

?If you know how to cheat, start now.?

"If you don't know how to cheat, you're probably being cheated."

[The Wedge]

Interesting, since the common opinion here, is that Mussina was and is a jerk, you would think Cito would be revered.

Even if he is/was a jerk, at the time, he was OUR jerk. Plus, you can hate a jerk for being an even bigger jerk to a fellow jerk.

If I say "jerk" a few more times, it's going to lose all meaning. Jerk, jerk, jerk.

[T. Legend]

Regardless of whether or not the Blue Jays were stealing signs, those folks you deem "irrational" are at least supporting their opinion with an actual argument. All you've done is come into the thread and construct a strawman and ignored people when they called you on it.

A lot of people seem to be making the argument that Hammel only pitched poorly because of the Jays stealing signs.....I brought actual statistical proof that Hammel was definitely due to give up more home runs based strictly on his career to date. I know it's unpopular around here to suggest that maybe Jason was pitching a bit over his head in a new league against teams who lacked decent scouting reports, but to call it a "strawman" argument feels a bit blind.

I hope I'm wrong about this, but I wonder what will happen if his next start goes poorly as well? What if Hunter and Arrieta also pitch poorly?

[DrungoHazewood]

A lot of people seem to be making the argument that Hammel only pitched poorly because of the Jays stealing signs.....I brought actual statistical proof that Hammel was definitely due to give up more home runs based strictly on his career to date. I know it's unpopular around here to suggest that maybe Jason was pitching a bit over his head in a new league against teams who lacked decent scouting reports, but to call it a "strawman" argument feels a bit blind.

I hope I'm wrong about this, but I wonder what will happen if his next start goes poorly as well? What if Hunter and Arrieta also pitch poorly?

It's one thing to say Hammel was due for more homers. But 4 in six innings is quite a karmic over-correction.

[ledzepp8]

A lot of people seem to be making the argument that Hammel only pitched poorly because of the Jays stealing signs.....I brought actual statistical proof that Hammel was definitely due to give up more home runs based strictly on his career to date. I know it's unpopular around here to suggest that maybe Jason was pitching a bit over his head in a new league against teams who lacked decent scouting reports, but to call it a "strawman" argument feels a bit blind.

I hope I'm wrong about this, but I wonder what will happen if his next start goes poorly as well? What if Hunter and Arrieta also pitch poorly?

No. No one has done this...not one person. That's the strawman, not your argument that Hammel was "due". Saying he's due to give up homeruns because he's done so in the past, ignores the possiblity that he's improved his ability as a pitcher (especially when his stats suggest that). You're not bringing any statistical evidence to back up your argument. You're argument is basically he's done it before, he'll do it again. That's like saying it rained on August 12, 2011, so it will rain on August 12, 2012...because it's "due to".

[waroriole]

No. No one has done this...not one person. That's the strawman, not your argument that Hammel was "due". Saying he's due to give up homeruns because he's done so in the past, ignores the possiblity that he's improved his ability as a pitcher (especially when his stats suggest that). You're not bringing any statistical evidence to back up your argument. You're argument is basically he's done it before, he'll do it again. That's like saying it rained on August 12, 2011, so it will rain on August 12, 2012...because it's "due to".

That's overstating it a bit. I think all Legend is saying is that Hammel was due to give up some HR. He cited his numbers at Coors, which would suggest that. Now, pitching outside of Coors suggests that his HR totals were bound to go down, but probably not to the level he had. Everything else seems to just be semantics.

[DrOrioles90210]

Looking at Hammel's past HR rates isn't a great way to conclude anything either. In Fangraphs' explanation of xFIP (expected fielding independent pitching), they replace HR/9 with league average HR/FB*FB% because HR/FB fluctuates similarly to the way BABIP does. Inferring anything just from HR/9 wouldn't be as useful as looking at other statistics, such as pitch values, or scouting reports.

[Spoonless]

A lot of people seem to be making the argument that Hammel only pitched poorly because of the Jays stealing signs...

Just because you keep repeating this statement doesn't make it true. Who has been making that argument?

[weams]

Just because you keep repeating this statement doesn't make it true. Who has been making that argument?

No one that I saw. I am just made that they steal signs as well as other things. And Cito disgusts me. So does that idiot from Pittsburgh. Lacava. Mole.

[OFFNY]

No one that I saw. I am just made that they steal signs as well as other things. And Cito disgusts me. So does that idiot from Pittsburgh, LaCava. Mole.

Me too, Weams. 20 out of 22 now for "The Obvious Lurker."

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php/115875-Perspective-from-the-Toronto-side-on-LaCava-turning-the-O-s-down