JJ needs to be moved down in the order

[Can_of_corn]

it's not possible to worry about both?

Sure it is, but that isn't what the OP is doing. On the list of problem spots in the lineup this season leadoff is more of an issue then #2.

[Va Beach O's fan]

Sure it is, but that isn't what the OP is doing. On the list of problem spots in the lineup this season leadoff is more of an issue then #2.

Agreed. But that doesn't mean we can't also point out that hardy is struggling too. It's quite frankly amazing we are where we are with the lack of production we've received from the 1 and 2 holes thus far this season.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Maybe hitting Nick 2nd wouldn't be great if they see a lot of FB.

I think Nick's issue is more handling inside FB's, than handling FB's in general. When he rolls over on those he has a chance going through the hole if someone is on first base and holding the runner.

[Lucky Jim]

Agreed. But that doesn't mean we can't also point out that hardy is struggling too. It's quite frankly amazing we are where we are with the lack of production we've received from the 1 and 2 holes thus far this season.

Hardy was producing at a reasonable clip from the No. 2 spot for a while, particularly when we were playing well. And he'll hit again, likely. But he's not a top-of-the-order or middle-of-the-order kind of guy.

[O's are Legends]

It's been time. 3 for his last 34. Let's see if he can get a hit before the end of tonight's game.

[zero1]

His most recent at bat tonight was absolutely pathetic. He has runners on 2nd and 3rd after a Roberts sacrifice bunt, he swings at ball 1 and ball 2, then he lines out to short stop.

[FanSince88]

.267 OBP is inexcusable for anyone in the top half of the order.

He's looking an awful lot like a power-hitting Cesar Izturis this year.

Doesn't matter who takes his place, they've got to be able to do better than .267 OBP.

This is becoming as bad as Buck's insistence on batting Vlad 4th the entire year last year. Maybe worse, at least Vlad got on base sometimes. Stop kissing up to veterans!!

And come September, I'd be very tempted to bring Machado up and see what he can do at short for a couple weeks, especially if the O's are out of contention.

[Brooks The Great]

J.J. Hardy has been awful since late May, and he has no business batting 2nd. I don't know why Buck continues to stick with Hardy, but it's time to drop him down in the order to the 6th or 7th spot. There should be some accountability for performance, and quite frankly Showalter's stubborn refusal to drop Hardy is his worst lineup management mistake of the season.

Since June 1st and including tonight's first three AB's, Hardy has batted .179 (25/140). He's 3/26 in July. His .286 OBP coming into tonight's game is pathetic, and the team should not be putting that kind of hitter anywhere near the top of the lineup. He also grounds into double plays at a high rate, so he's basically the polar opposite of the kind of hitter we need to employ in the #2 spot. He's been extremely unproductive, and he's been a rally killer. Not only does he kill rallies, but he never gets on base and thus never gets rallies started, which should be one of the responsibilities of the #2 hitter. And since we've also gotten terrible production from our leadoff hitters, what's the point of hitting him second? Any home runs he hits will more than likely be solo shots, and any extra base hits he gets are statistically probable to be with no one one base.

Why does Buck refuse to move him down? Sometimes even All-Star players get dropped down in the order when they are slumping. Adrian Gonzalez, a perennial 3rd and cleanup hitter, is having one of his worst seasons, and he's been dropped down in the Red Sox lineup to the 5th and 6th spots in the order at times this season. Why can't Hardy be moved down as a result of his lack of productivity? Why does he deserve any sort of loyalty or routine from the manager batting second?

Our offense will greatly benefit from dropping Hardy down to 6th or 7th. And unlike in the 2nd spot, he'll actually have runners on base to drive in once he finally heats back up again. I hope Buck makes the right move soon.

[clapdiddy]

Hardy looks like he needs to have a day off desperately. Fortunately, he'll get a few coming up. And, you are 100% right...he should NEVER be hitting second.

[oriole]

I agree....top of the lineup should be OBP and speed, neither of which Hardy brings to the table.

[section18]

We've discussed this before and will again it appears. JJ is trying to pull everything and is swinging at anything near the plate. He has hit some hard outs that could have been hits with a little luck that's not on his side at the moment. Should he be hitting 2nd? This is like asking if Avery should be our cleanup hitter batting 4th. Again this is an example where Buck has another one of his favorite players he doesn't want to think he is giving up on early in the season. The halfway point is not really early in the season but i think it is to Buck. He should be hitting 6th or 7th.

I think DD will pull off a trade or two in the near future and we will be adding another bat and at least one starter. The Orioles got shut out tonight and Weaver's last inning said it all pretty much. He starts the inning having thrown 103 pitches and retires the 3 Oriole hitters on 6 pitches. Why do so many innings seem to be like batting practice? Swing at everything. As Jim Palmer said they take pitches that are strikes right over the plate. It's one thing to try and work the pitcher to throw more pitches but why take strikes over the plate? We continue to swing at low pitches that either are missed by our bats or hit on the ground for easy outs and sometimes DP's.

Somebody said on another post we need Pitching, Pitching, Pitching. We also need smart hitters, smart hitters, smart hitters.

[zero1]

.265 OBP now ... let's just all hope that Markakis is back on Friday and Buck moves Hardy to the bottom of the order.

[Brooks The Great]

We've discussed this before and will again it appears. JJ is trying to pull everything and is swinging at anything near the plate. He has hit some hard outs that could have been hits with a little luck that's not on his side at the moment. Should he be hitting 2nd? This is like asking if Avery should be our cleanup hitter batting 4th. Again this is an example where Buck has another one of his favorite players he doesn't want to think he is giving up on early in the season. The halfway point is not really early in the season but i think it is to Buck. He should be hitting 6th or 7th.

I think DD will pull off a trade or two in the near future and we will be adding another bat and at least one starter. The Orioles got shut out tonight and Weaver's last inning said it all pretty much. He starts the inning having thrown 103 pitches and retires the 3 Oriole hitters on 6 pitches. Why do so many innings seem to be like batting practice? Swing at everything. As Jim Palmer said they take pitches that are strikes right over the plate. It's one thing to try and work the pitcher to throw more pitches but why take strikes over the plate? We continue to swing at low pitches that either are missed by our bats or hit on the ground for easy outs and sometimes DP's.

Somebody said on another post we need Pitching, Pitching, Pitching. We also need smart hitters, smart hitters, smart hitters.

I did a search for "Hardy" and "J.J." and nothing came up. Looks like someone bumped an ongoing thread, titled "JJ needs to be moved down in the order", which I somehow missed even though I read the forum regularly.

If a mod would like to merge this thread into that one, that would be great.

[BobbyWoontz]

He's waiting for Cakes to come back to insert in the #2 position, then you'll see Hardy drop down.

[Va Beach O's fan]

He's waiting for Cakes to come back to insert in the #2 position, then you'll see Hardy drop down.

I hope you are right, but it wouldn't surprise me if he hits Nick at 3, jones at 4, Wieters at 5 and Davis at 6 and keep Hardy at 2.

But I think it's pretty obvious to anyone paying attention Hardy needs to hit much further down in the lineup. I don't understand how Buck hasn't figured this out yet. He's a giant black hole in the middle of what is supposed to be the strength of our lineup.

Hopefully tomorrow is the last day we see him there as Nick will be back right after the break.