Here goes

[JTrea81]

Looks like (according to media reports) we are pushing to include Morrow... and the M's seem reluctant to include him...

The Mariners don't want to trade Morrow at all and we keep asking for him, so my guess is we'll turn toward the Reds. The Twins also want Jones and Morrow for Santana.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/344460_morrow21.html

[connja]

My problem with the Cuetto/Votto deal is that would be another corner guy with Votto. We have so many 1B/LF types, with more on the way with Rowell, Snyder, etc. We have no depth up the middle in our minor league system unless you cound wieters at C. Nothing at SS, 2B, CF for projected impact players. That's why I favor the Jones deal.

[Sports Guy]

I don't think Morrow will take that long, and his upside is higher than anybody the Reds can offer us besides Bruce and Bailey.

I agree he is a much more risky target. I just think that with the amount of players we've brought in for Tejada and (will for) Roberts, that we can afford to gamble a bit.

I'd certainly do the trade with either of them in there, and unless Cincy adds to their deal, I prefer the Mariners trade.

Based on what??? He has thrown 300 innings since his freshman year in college.

That is nothing!!!

He has had high walk rates since his freshman year and there aren't a ton of signs that is getting much better.

People talk about his improved walk rate last year in the second half..Big deal, it was 30 innings. All he has to do is have his mechanics right for 5-8 innings and his numbers look better...That doesn't mean he can sustain it for 200 innings a year.

He really needs to go to the minors and work on things.

People are, rightfully so, pointing to his HR and K rate...Well, we used to point to that with DCab but look at him now..His K rate went down, his BB rate stayed the same and the homers went up.

And lets not forget that Morrow played in a good pitchers park.

If this guy wasn't a top 10 pick, I find it hard to believe you would be this enamored by him.

[PoorMike]

Thanks for the info, BB.

Should I assume that the Dotel option is a club option and not a player option?

It bothers me that PA has a hand in the ROberts discussion at all, but it's really troublesome that PA could possibly approve the deal now and then recind that approval next week.

[Crazysilver03]

My problem with the Cuetto/Votto deal is that would be another corner guy with Votto. We have so many 1B/LF types, with more on the way with Rowell, Snyder, etc. We have no depth up the middle in our minor league system unless you cound wieters at C. Nothing at SS, 2B, CF for projected impact players. That's why I favor the Jones deal.

Honestly, go for the best talent out there period and then figure it out from there.

Rowell and Snyder may be on their way, there is no safe bet that they make the majors, especially in the next 2 years. If you get Votto and he is playing really good and then Snyder or Rowell knock on the door, you worry about that then.

[tywright]

If this guy wasn't a top 10 pick, I find it hard to believe you would be this enamored by him.

Say it with me SG, "He has the stuff !"

Yes he needs to be in the minors for another year to build up innings and learn how to really pitch. But he also has the ceiling of a #2 because the kid has very good stuff. He's about 2-3 years from realizing that though, but then again so are the O's.

[Mackus]

Based on what??? He has thrown 300 innings since his freshman year in college.

That is nothing!!!

He has had high walk rates since his freshman year and there aren't a ton of signs that is getting much better.

People talk about his improved walk rate last year in the second half..Big deal, it was 30 innings. All he has to do is have his mechanics right for 5-8 innings and his numbers look better...That doesn't mean he can sustain it for 200 innings a year.

He really needs to go to the minors and work on things.

People are, rightfully so, pointing to his HR and K rate...Well, we used to point to that with DCab but look at him now..His K rate went down, his BB rate stayed the same and the homers went up.

And lets not forget that Morrow played in a good pitchers park.

If this guy wasn't a top 10 pick, I find it hard to believe you would be this enamored by him.

But he was a top 10 pick, he does have immense talent. Obviously he hasn't harnessed it, but imagine if he did. I'm fully aware that he is a very risky option, and I'm not saying its clear cut to choose him over Clement. I completely understand wanting Clement over him, and don't think its a bad opinion. I'm just saying I would like to gamble on Morrow's talent.

He's always had high walks, but showed in college that he could get them down into the 3-4 BB/9 range. If he can get to 3.5 BB/9, he'll be a stud. I do agree that he'll take some time in the minors, I'd put him at AA or AAA for nearly the entire season unless he dominates there and then see where we're at in a year.

I think his floor is Daniel Cabrera from 2005-2006. Low to mid 4's ERA with 4-5 BB/9 and 9-10 K/9 with low HRs. He'd be frustrating, but overall effective. His upside is pretty much the upside we used to project Cabrera as having.

This isn't a time where I'm saying I'm right and the other opinion is wrong. Morrow certainly could flame out and never improve, but given the amount of other talent we have coming in, this is a time that I'd like to gamble a bit and hope for the big payout.

[RShack]

Honestly, go for the best talent out there period and then figure it out from there.

Rowell and Snyder may be on their way, there is no safe bet that they make the majors, especially in the next 2 years. If you get Votto and he is playing really good and then Snyder or Rowell knock on the door, you worry about that then.

Oh, so what we're worried about is the next two years? If that's the issue, then shouldn't they be signing super-expensive FA's? Or is it the unproven nature of prospects? If it's the latter, then how come everybody wants to trade proven stars for unproven prospects? (I'm almost kidding. Almost. ;-)

[Sports Guy]

Say it with me SG, "He has the stuff !"

Yes he needs to be in the minors for another year to build up innings and learn how to really pitch. But he also has the ceiling of a #2 because the kid has very good stuff. He's about 2-3 years from realizing that though, but then again so are the O's.

So does DCab...Who cares?

If you can't harness it, the stuff is useless...Now, i am nto denying he could be a good reliever...But I am not trading Bedard for a reliever.

[JTrea81]

I'm going to say I hope this is a hack job and that we don't value Morrow over Jones...

In fact, echoing a general belief, the Post-Intelligencer said the Mariners are now considered the favorites to acquire Bedard, probably because the Orioles are more likely to drop outfielder Adam Jones from the asking price.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071220&content_id=2334332&vkey=hotstove2007&fext=.jsp

[Hank Scorpio]

So does DCab...Who cares?

If you can't harness it, the stuff is useless...Now, i am nto denying he could be a good reliever...But I am not trading Bedard for a reliever.

DCab doesn't have the head.

I can't sit here and tell you that Morrow does, but I would say that it wouldn't be too difficult for someone to have a better head than Cabrera.

[tywright]

So does DCab...Who cares?

If you can't harness it, the stuff is useless...Now, i am nto denying he could be a good reliever...But I am not trading Bedard for a reliever.

So was Randy Johnson...so who cares?! DCab has many more variables going on that are holding him back so the comparison to Morrow doesn't work well.

[clapdiddy]

I'm going to say I hope this is a hack job and that we don't value Morrow over Jones...

In fact, echoing a general belief, the Post-Intelligencer said the Mariners are now considered the favorites to acquire Bedard, probably because the Orioles are more likely to drop outfielder Adam Jones from the asking price.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071220&content_id=2334332&vkey=hotstove2007&fext=.jsp

I sure hope this is a hack job. IF we are not asking for Jones, then this deal should not happen.

[Hank Scorpio]

I'm going to say I hope this is a hack job and that we don't value Morrow over Jones...

In fact, echoing a general belief, the Post-Intelligencer said the Mariners are now considered the favorites to acquire Bedard, probably because the Orioles are more likely to drop outfielder Adam Jones from the asking price.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071220&content_id=2334332&vkey=hotstove2007&fext=.jsp

If there is no Jones in the deal, we need Morrow, Clement, Sherrill (Tillman) and Balentien.

[Mackus]

If there is no Jones in the deal, we need Morrow, Clement and Balentien.

Agreed.

We need Jones + 1 or all of the other 3.