Duquette, "Our best players are going to come up through the farm system."

[CA-ORIOLE]

Doing it now probably saves several million dollars. Isn't that the whole point of taking this approach? I've seen enough of Machado to be comfortable committing to him now.

I guess that depends on your evaluation of Machado and risk tolerance. I would not be comfortable extending Machado right now. I'd want to wait until June or so and see how pitchers are adjusting to him and how he's handling it. Yes it might save several million dollars now, but it could also lose 10's of millions of dollars down the line. I don't think us differing over a few months represents a significant difference with the overall strategy (and the player in this case).

[Hank Scorpio]

How highly regarded were Matusz and Arrieta from the scouts? I bet if we went this route with our prospects that he would have gotten a nice extension after his first year or two.

O's scouts? Pretty high.

I'd say there were varying opinions on them industry wide.

Matusz more consistent than Arrieta, probably.

[Brendan25]

O's scouts? Pretty high.

I'd say there were varying opinions on them industry wide.

Matusz was ranked pretty highly everywhere.

[Stotle]

How highly regarded were Matusz and Arrieta from the scouts? I bet if we went this route with our prospects that he would have gotten a nice extension after his first year or two.

Tampa sets a higher bar for pitchers, as well. Moore was a very special case. Price is likely to be their "centerpiece". Each of these decisions are based on a whole lot of factors, in Moore's case his time in the minors/org impression is a really big deal.

Neither Matusz or Arrieta should have been extended. Perhaps if Bundy has a really nice 2013 in the minors he could be a candidate. Ditto Gausman. But not sure if (for me personally) I'd have had enough interaction with the player in that time to be comfortable entering into an 8 yr marriage.

[Stotle]

I guess that depends on your evaluation of Machado and risk tolerance. I would not be comfortable extending Machado right now. I'd want to wait until June or so and see how pitchers are adjusting to him and how he's handling it. Yes it might save several million dollars now, but it could also lose 10's of millions of dollars down the line. I don't think us differing over a few months represents a significant difference with the overall strategy (and the player in this case).

The better Machado does during that time the more money you have to pay him. And you're looking at a small sample size if April/May/June is some sort of determining factor. The point (at least for Tampa) is a belief in the player based on the body of time you've spent with him.

[Dark Helmet]

Then do yourself a favor and go root for the Yankees. They're so easy to root for, spending all that money. Go ahead.

For me, the Orioles are the easiest team to root for in the world. I got more pleasure out of last season than any Yankee fan could have had, not just because of what the Orioles did, but how they did it, and the odds they faced. And I'm totally excited to see what this team is able to do this year, no matter what happens the rest of this offseason.

I'm not denigrating the way you feel, but I'm serious in saying that if you truly feel the organization is not committed to winning, is doomed to lose and doesn't care about it's fans, then don't make it so hard on yourself. Find another team to root for.

Or maybe ownership could follow through on some promises they've made. PA himself said MASN would allow the O's to compete financially. Most fans assumed it wouldn't happen until the time was right. Well the time doesn't get much better than coming off a 93 win season that saw our team in the playoffs AND have a winning team for the first time in 14 years.

PA probably deserves losing the fanbase. But luckily for him, the O's have fans that stuck by this team through a lot of BS. We deserve an owner that shows that same type of committment. Prior to 2012 I would have loved to just walk off and root for another team. Wish it was that easy. But unfortunately I bleed black and orange. Wish I could say the same for PA. But it's obvious he bleeds green.

[TonySoprano]

Doing it now probably saves several million dollars. Isn't that the whole point of taking this approach? I've seen enough of Machado to be comfortable committing to him now.

It took the Orioles three years to watch Markakis and four years to watch Jones to make the leap to a multi-year deal. If they are able to keep Wieters, he will get a deal before Machado.

[Frobby]

Tampa sets a higher bar for pitchers, as well. Moore was a very special case. Price is likely to be their "centerpiece". Each of these decisions are based on a whole lot of factors, in Moore's case his time in the minors/org impression is a really big deal.

Neither Matusz or Arrieta should have been extended. Perhaps if Bundy has a really nice 2013 in the minors he could be a candidate. Ditto Gausman. But not sure if (for me personally) I'd have had enough interaction with the player in that time to be comfortable entering into an 8 yr marriage.

Hindsight aside, based on his performance in 2009 I would have been tempted to lock up Matusz. He was a top 10 prospect, who showed well for 2-3 months at age 22 despite only three months of professional experience prior to reaching the majors. Obviously, that decision would not have turned out very well.

[Brendan25]

Or maybe ownership could follow through on some promises they've made. PA himself said MASN would allow the O's to compete financially. Most fans assumed it wouldn't happen until the time was right. Well the time doesn't get much better than coming off a 93 win season that saw our team in the playoffs AND have a winning team for the first time in 14 years.

PA probably deserves losing the fanbase. But luckily for him, the O's have fans that stuck by this team through a lot of BS. We deserve an owner that shows that same type of committment. Prior to 2012 I would have loved to just walk off and root for another team. Wish it was that easy. But unfortunately I bleed black and orange. Wish I could say the same for PA. But it's obvious he bleeds green.

I have provided quote afer quote after quote of PA saying he does not like free agency and does not want to spend a lot in free agency. YOu keep saying PA has made promises that he has not made, and you come up with him quoting the payroll would increase because of MASN. The payroll has increased. It's just not as high as you want it to be.

[Stotle]

Hindsight aside, based on his performance in 2009 I would have been tempted to lock up Matusz. He was a top 10 prospect, who showed well for 2-3 months at age 22 despite only three months of professional experience prior to reaching the majors. Obviously, that decision would not have turned out very well.

Maybe. I think the bar has to be pretty high with pitchers considering increased injury risk. At the basest level, Baltimore would need to be completely solid on his personality/work ethic/fit with the organization. Tampa had 4+ years of working with Moore every day leading up to their decision to issue a contract offer.

[Frobby]

Maybe. I think the bar has to be pretty high with pitchers considering increased injury risk. At the basest level, Baltimore would need to be completely solid on his personality/work ethic/fit with the organization. Tampa had 4+ years of working with Moore every day leading up to their decision to issue a contract offer.

Good points. In any event, in this case I'm glad the Orioles didn't do it (though I'm still a believer that Matusz will produce).

[CA-ORIOLE]

The better Machado does during that time the more money you have to pay him. And you're looking at a small sample size if April/May/June is some sort of determining factor. The point (at least for Tampa) is a belief in the player based on the body of time you've spent with him.

I've already answered that. It's a risk assessment and a balance between a few million and a potential loss of tens of millions. I'm comfortable with Manny's defense and his ability to handle ss from what I've seen. I'm not at all comfortable with his offense at this point. What if he struggles miserably on offense? Maybe if Machado was a year or two older with a bit longer track record in the high minors I might have a different attitude. It's not necessarily about what his stat line is in June either, it's about how he's making adjustments to ML pitching. Of course that's just my opinion based on what I saw and looking at his track record. I certainly respect that you have a better feel for MM's raw ability than I do.

As far as what TB would do, I don't know. I don't know if they'd extend MM at this point in time or that MM is comparable what the Rays did with Evan Longoria in 2008. My instinct is that Longoria was probably more of a sure bet on offense than Machado is at this point.

[Stotle]

I've already answered that. It's a risk assessment and a balance between a few million and a potential loss of tens of millions. I'm comfortable with Manny's defense and his ability to handle ss from what I've seen. I'm not at all comfortable with his offense at this point. What if he struggles miserably on offense? Maybe if Machado was a year or two older with a bit longer track record in the high minors I might have a different attitude. It's not necessarily about what his stat line is in June either, it's about how he's making adjustments to ML pitching. Of course that's just my opinion based on what I saw and looking at his track record. I certainly respect that you have a better feel for MM's raw ability than I do.

As far as what TB would do, I don't know. I don't know if they'd extend MM at this point in time or that MM is comparable what the Rays did with Evan Longoria in 2008. My instinct is that Longoria was probably more of a sure bet on offense than Machado is at this point.

I do not think Tampa would extend Machado, primarily because he would be nowhere near the MLB roster were he in the Tampa system. I don't have an issue with not extending Machado. It just means that ultimately buying out a couple extra years is probably going to be part of a $60MM contract as opposed to, say, a $35 or 40MM contract.

[Frobby]

I've already answered that. It's a risk assessment and a balance between a few million and a potential loss of tens of millions. I'm comfortable with Manny's defense and his ability to handle ss from what I've seen. I'm not at all comfortable with his offense at this point. What if he struggles miserably on offense? Maybe if Machado was a year or two older with a bit longer track record in the high minors I might have a different attitude. It's not necessarily about what his stat line is in June either, it's about how he's making adjustments to ML pitching. Of course that's just my opinion based on what I saw and looking at his track record. I certainly respect that you have a better feel for MM's raw ability than I do.

I'm extremely comfortable with Machado's offense, and will be even if he puts up a .675 OPS this year (at age 20, when most players are still in high A if they're lucky). But that's just me.

[Dark Helmet]

I have provided quote afer quote after quote of PA saying he does not like free agency and does not want to spend a lot in free agency. YOu keep saying PA has made promises that he has not made, and you come up with him quoting the payroll would increase because of MASN. The payroll has increased. It's just not as high as you want it to be.

I assume you meant DD? And if he has an owner that won't spend, then what's he supposed to say? DD didn't mind spending money in Boston. I have quoted PA saying that the MASN deal would allow them to compete financially with the Yankees and Red Sox. TonySoprano has quoted it numerous times too.