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Schmuck Gives a Dose of Financial Reality


TonySoprano

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Every year people on here get their hopes up that the Orioles are going to sign a Free Agent that other clubs might want as well and every year we don't sign anyone.

Those people choose to ignore reality/history/common sense.

They have to do it on the relative cheap, and they always will. Period. Anyone who believes otherwise or wants the Orioles to "win the offseason" is dreaming. It's just never going to happen, so don't expect it.

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They also are trying to get a downtown stadium in Tampa. They get that and they will be able to spend more. I guess then the orioles will have to find another team that does not spend as an example.The Rays have also outspent the Orioles on free agents in 2014.

How did that work out for the Marlins?

A new stadium will help but this is still Florida and I don't expect Tampa to end up more then middle of the pack in attendance long term even if they continue winning and have a new ballpark.

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Tony, this was 2006. You can chose to believe that Angelos was devious and never meant any of it. Or you can believe that MacPhail and Duquette have talked him out of this way of thinking over the years and has embraced a new philosophy.

How can you not hear that and love it? It's something OH fans have been screaming for the last decade plus... AND IT'S WORKING. From all accounts, DD is doing a fine job at acquiring system depth and has spent a great deal of resources towards player development. This is exactly what we want!

Yeah, I don't think the O's GM's have reined in the owners' strong desire to spend more on the team.

I think he might have meant it when he said it, then he actually saw how much was coming in (combined with his losses during the economic downturn and maybe to include the issues with his law firm I have heard whispers about), and changed his mind.

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My biggest problem with all of this is that I think it's deeply unethical to consider MASN a completely separate entity from the Orioles. We see plenty of other owners using their TV network as cash infusions for their team.

The only ones who see it that way are the folks around here who want to make excuses for Angelos hoarding every penny that comes in from MASN. The owner himself has said he doesn't see it that way, and every other owner who has an RSN doesn't see it that way either. Just look at what they are spending, with less valuable networks.

The whole separate entity nonsense is just that, but the "believers" don't have much to hang their hat on these days so they need to make up something to argue with.

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Those people choose to ignore reality/history/common sense.

They have to do it on the relative cheap, and they always will. Period. Anyone who believes otherwise or wants the Orioles to "win the offseason" is dreaming. It's just never going to happen, so don't expect it.

I don't think most fans expect anything. But that doesn't mean they should be content with it either. Other teams are spending this winter (KC, TB, Oak), yet here the Orioles are with a lesser payroll then last year but assuring us they will get to 100m. The fact they have atleast 25m more to spend this year then last, and are declaring they will atleast match last years payroll at seasons end is really unacceptable. I never expected them to win the offseason, but I thought they would have done more than they have.

If Webb was going to be the big FA signing, I would have just assumed they kept JJ and just had a strong back end of the BP. Unless they are going to spend 16m per year (Unlikely) on a pitcher, I don't see them even getting to a 100m payroll. The FA market wasn't great this year I know. But id rather have David Murphy then the options in LF we have now.

If the Orioles would have signed Webb and Murphy, brought back Hammel and kept JJ then the offseason wouldn't have been as bad. Atleast to me and looking at how the winter has shaped up. If they sign Burnett and find a CP and a bat, then they may still salvage the offseason. I just don't see the options left to do so.

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As for MASN being a fantasy--it was a fantasy for anyone (including Angelos) to believe that MASN would make enough money to put the O's on equal footing with NYY or Boston. The Yankees get cable money from the entire NYC metro area, including Long Island, New Jersey, and Southern Connecticut. The Red Sox get cable money from most of New England. There just aren't enough eyeballs in the mid-Atlantic region for MASN to be as lucrative as YES or NESN. MASN money can allow the O's to have a higher payroll than they otherwise would--and they can certainly afford to spend more than they do now--but the O's will never be able to match the Yankees' or Red Sox payroll.

Ah the old tried and true "you can't expect us to spend like the Yankees and Red Sox" argument

No one EVER said that. Not fans. Not Angelos. Not anyone. Won't stop people from trying to act like they did though that is for sure!

But yet again you try to claim that it was said or people around here expect it when we DON'T. So just stop saying it because it has no basis in reality and is not true. No matter how much you say it, no one here has ever claimed such and no one here ever will because we know better.

Here let me show you the gap between what we spend and they do....

200m-----------------------------------------------------------------------100m.

See all that space in between? It is a lot right? Yeah that is what I thought. There is plenty of space in between 100m and 200m that doesn't involve "spending as much as the Yankees and Red Sox"

That argument is about as old and stale as the "separate entity" one.

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the only ones who see it that way are the folks around here who want to make excuses for angelos hoarding every penny that comes in from masn. The owner himself has said he doesn't see it that way, and every other owner who has an rsn doesn't see it that way either. Just look at what they are spending, with less valuable networks.

The whole separate entity nonsense is just that, but the "believers" don't have much to hang their hat on these days so they need to make up something to argue with.

Who does this?

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The only ones who see it that way are the folks around here who want to make excuses for Angelos hoarding every penny that comes in from MASN. The owner himself has said he doesn't see it that way, and every other owner who has an RSN doesn't see it that way either. Just look at what they are spending, with less valuable networks.

The whole separate entity nonsense is just that, but the "believers" don't have much to hang their hat on these days so they need to make up something to argue with.

There are three schools of thought:

1. Those who believe MASN is hugely profitable and that Angelos is hoarding huge profits.

2. Those who believe MASN is not adding much and that the O's truly are a lower end of the middle market team.

3. Those who have accepted that MASN is a black box and we have no idea how profitable it is or how much the Orioles could spend if all MASN profits were distributed out so that the team could use those funds to bankroll payroll.

Put me squarely in Camp 3. I have no idea. And I don't expect to find out.

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Plenty of people around here have tried to use that argument, recently. I would be happy to give you a list of names but I don't have access to a search feature.

Then pony up for plus so you can back up your claims or stop spouting gross distortions of the truth.

The rest of us don't go around making grossly inaccurate statements then give a lame excuse why we shouldn't be held accountable for backing them up.

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There are three schools of thought:

1. Those who believe MASN is hugely profitable and that Angelos is hoarding huge profits.

2. Those who believe MASN is not adding much and that the O's truly are a lower end of the middle market team.

3. Those who have accepted that MASN is a black box and we have no idea how profitable it is or how much the Orioles could spend if all MASN profits were distributed out so that the team could use those funds to bankroll payroll.

Put me squarely in Camp 3. I have no idea. And I don't expect to find out.

Number 1 is clearly the right answer, based on every single thing that has come out in regards to the cash cow every other RSN is (but not ours at #4! right!)

Only complete fools would believe number 2.

Number 3 is a copout for fans who are in denial. Sorry.

Do we know exactly how many 10's of millions he is making? Nope. But we know it is tens(and tens) of millions of dollars.

But hey whatever makes you feel better.

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Tony, this was 2006. You can chose to believe that Angelos was devious and never meant any of it. Or you can believe that MacPhail and Duquette have talked him out of this way of thinking over the years and has embraced a new philosophy.
It's not a new philosophy. Flanagan talked about developing pitching. In 2006, he brought over a noted pitching guru from Atlanta (Leo Mazzone) to work with the young arms. Does that sound familiar to anything we're doing in 2014?

Is it coincidental, or is it by design, that the two men that followed him share the same philosophy of rebuilding the farm system? I believe it is by design which is why they were hired.

As to Angelos, the kindest way to put it is he was being disingenuous.

Why is spending money where needed and developing the farm system have to be a one or the other proposition? For the thousandth time I'll say no one ever expected us to match the Yankees or Red Sox dollar for dollar. However, MASN should have been able to keep us out of the bottom half of the league in payroll, which is where we've been every year but one (10th in 2007) in the last 11 seasons including 2014. That's the question no body in the local media has raised. Schmuck just pointed out that it was a fantasy all along, which is as bold as it gets around here.

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There are three schools of thought:

1. Those who believe MASN is hugely profitable and that Angelos is hoarding huge profits.

2. Those who believe MASN is not adding much and that the O's truly are a lower end of the middle market team.

3. Those who have accepted that MASN is a black box and we have no idea how profitable it is or how much the Orioles could spend if all MASN profits were distributed out so that the team could use those funds to bankroll payroll.

Put me squarely in Camp 3. I have no idea. And I don't expect to find out.

And then there are those who would like to see the Orioles get the best players possible, but also believe that how a private business operates is none of their business. They just enjoy watching baseball and hope for the best.

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Yeah, I don't think the O's GM's have reined in the owners' strong desire to spend more on the team.

I think he might have meant it when he said it, then he actually saw how much was coming in (combined with his losses during the economic downturn and maybe to include the issues with his law firm I have heard whispers about), and changed his mind.

2008 reportedly hurt Peter in a very significant way.

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Number 1 is clearly the right answer, based on every single thing that has come out in regards to the cash cow every other RSN is (but not ours at #4! right!)

Only complete fools would believe number 2.

Number 3 is a copout for fans who are in denial. Sorry.

Do we know exactly how many 10's of millions he is making? Nope. But we know it is tens(and tens) of millions of dollars.

But hey whatever makes you feel better.

So now you are calling posters complete fools?

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