Schmuck Gives a Dose of Financial Reality

[Prayin4Reign]

This year isn't a good example, I have convinced myself that the Rays' are going for it this season.

If they haven't traded Price there's not a lot of convincing that needs to be made. They're going for it.

[millertime]

And what good does it do to follow the "we will compete by improving our farm system" approach if one, we don't develop our minor league players very well and two, in the event that we do developer a solid MLB player such as Machado, we will be too cheap to resign them once they hit free agency? Not trying to be a Debbie Downer but I think it is a legitimate question.

[atomic]

Every year people on here get their hopes up that the Orioles are going to sign a Free Agent that other clubs might want as well and every year we don't sign anyone.

[Three Run Homer]

I'm not as worked up by DD's comments as some folks seem to be.

All he's saying here is that he's not going to build the core of the team by signing high priced free agents--in other words, he's not going to build a team like the 1996-1997 Orioles. The best players on the team are going to be developed by the Orioles, and free agents will be used to supplement the core.

Nothing in DD's statement precludes the O's from signing their best home-grown players to extensions before they hit free agency. The O's have signed Markakis, Roberts and Jones to big contracts in recent years, so there's no reason to assume that Davis, Machado et. al. are all destined to be gone after 6 years. The O's may never sign anyone to a $200 million contract, but at some point they will sign someone for over $100 million.

And nothing in DD's statement precludes them from signing someone like Morales, Rodney or AJ Burnett. We can argue whether those players are worth the money or the draft pick, but the point is that they would not be the core of the team. This team already has a core of outstanding talent. They need to supplement the core with one or two free agents if they want to contend this year. That seems entirely consistent with what DD said.

As for MASN being a fantasy--it was a fantasy for anyone (including Angelos) to believe that MASN would make enough money to put the O's on equal footing with NYY or Boston. The Yankees get cable money from the entire NYC metro area, including Long Island, New Jersey, and Southern Connecticut. The Red Sox get cable money from most of New England. There just aren't enough eyeballs in the mid-Atlantic region for MASN to be as lucrative as YES or NESN. MASN money can allow the O's to have a higher payroll than they otherwise would--and they can certainly afford to spend more than they do now--but the O's will never be able to match the Yankees' or Red Sox payroll.

[isestrex]

We all know Peter Angelos started the now so-called "long-held notion," when in 2006 he said, "now that we have an RSN and we can move forward with it?that is going get us on a more even plane with Boston and New York, and that was the purpose. " In the same interview he also said

Now, I have heard some of them mention that this MASN development might really generate some real funds which would permit the Orioles to spend more money. That's a pretty strong acknowledgment that the key to all this, to get off the losing years and so on, is more money invested on the field. And obviously, with that becoming available, that's exactly what we're going to do. We're going to do that because we are hometown and we are sensitive to what the public is thinking. I know a lot of Baltimore fans, and, just personally, I want them to feel like I am responding to their wishes.

source - PressBox, Sept. 12, 2006

Tony, this was 2006. You can chose to believe that Angelos was devious and never meant any of it. Or you can believe that MacPhail and Duquette have talked him out of this way of thinking over the years and has embraced a new philosophy.

"If people have the expectation that we're going to sign a lot of high-profile free agents and that's going to be the answer, that is not who the Orioles are about,'' Duquette said. "We're going to have a good, solid player development operation. That's going to be the core of our ballclub."

How can you not hear that and love it? It's something OH fans have been screaming for the last decade plus... AND IT'S WORKING. From all accounts, DD is doing a fine job at acquiring system depth and has spent a great deal of resources towards player development. This is exactly what we want!

[El Gordo]

This we can't spend with the Yankees, is a bogus argument. Of course we can't, nor need we. The MFY spent close to 100M this off season just to remain competitive. The O's already are. If they spent an additional 20M they could be WS contenders. The have the resources to do that short term, without mortgaging the future of the franchise, they simply choose not to do so.

[MrOrange82]

Tony, this was 2006. You can chose to believe that Angelos was devious and never meant any of it. Or you can believe that MacPhail and Duquette have talked him out of this way of thinking over the years and has embraced a new philosophy.

How can you not hear that and love it? It's something OH fans have been screaming for the last decade plus... AND IT'S WORKING. From all accounts, DD is doing a fine job at acquiring system depth and has spent a great deal of resources towards player development. This is exactly what we want!

Now imagine if they implemented a solid player development system AND spent significantly more money on the major league club. Not Yankee/Red Sox amounts, but why should $120 million be out of the question, what with the extra MLB money and MASN's profits?

Talking about building a foundation on young talent is nothing new. The O's have been singing that tune for years...and for years we've heard about cavalries and phenoms and blah blah blah. Of course, past failures don't mean that the O's should give up on "growing the [something baseball related, such as arms]," but it doesn't mean that we should excuse failures to infuse the team with talent through other methods, either.

As you pointed out, the Angelos quote was from September of 2006. The following year, the O's payroll was $93.5 million. In 2008, their payroll dropped to $67 million, and it stayed there in 2009.

Actually, I'm going to do something scummy and link to my own post in an older thread, because I don't feel like walking through all this again. The upshot of the post is that the Orioles' spending has remained fairly static (within a $20 million +/- margin of $70 million overall) since 1999. MASN appears to have changed nothing when it comes to Angelos' spending habits. Getting extra money from MLB appears to have changed nothing about Angelos' spending habits. So the Orioles are attempting to create a productive infrastructure? Wonderful, but that doesn't change anything about Angelos' spending habits.

And it doesn't change the fact that Angelos, by all accounts, appears to be a greedy, self-serving, horrible team owner. DD's comments shouldn't be celebrated. They should be accepted as the best face of a bad situation.

[Il BuonO]

MASN appears to have changed nothing when it comes to Angelos' spending habits. Getting extra money from MLB appears to have changed nothing about Angelos' spending habits. So the Orioles are attempting to create a productive infrastructure? Wonderful, but that doesn't change anything about Angelos' spending habits.

And it doesn't change the fact that Angelos, by all accounts, appears to be a greedy, self-serving, horrible team owner. DD's comments shouldn't be celebrated. They should be accepted as the best face of a bad situation.

Exactly right and no matter who is acting GM will run into the same problem as long as he is owner. We can only hope that within the extremely restrictive parameters he's created that Dan and Buck can at least build a system, in the mean time, worthy of being competitive and in the process maybe the stars align to give us another season like the one we had in 2012.

[McNulty]

"Keith Law had us 28th a couple of years ago and now we're at 10. When we're in the top five, that's when we'll be cooking. That's when we'll be consistent participants in the postseason."

"Dan's very perceptive," manager Buck Showalter said. "He understands [that the fans are frustrated], but he also knows what the bottom line is. Just because something is delayed doesn't mean it's denied. It's all about the finished product. I think Dan understands that there is a difference between perception and reality, and knows the finished product is a little ways away."

I don't think they can make it any clearer. 2012 was a mirage. They are looking towards 2016 and beyond. Forget that man behind the curtain's BS about MASN money and spending when they are close. They have been given just so many marbles and will have to make do. JMHO but I think there is some middle ground between spending like the Yankees and dumpster diving.

Read more: http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/bs-sp-schmuck-orioles-column-0202-20140201,0,4040086.column#ixzz2s8BOS1sX

This is BS. If they were looking to 2016 and beyond, then they'd trade Wieters and Davis. The problem is being stuck in the middle, which is precisely what they are doing.

[Tx Oriole]

The Orioles still have two years of team control on Wieters. They can still trade him down the road if they want to.

I'm okay with the Orioles focusing on player development. In fact, that kind of team-building is more interesting and rewarding to me anyways. Hopefully the player development system under Duquette will produce.

I agree with you.

[Going Underground]

If they haven't traded Price there's not a lot of convincing that needs to be made. They're going for it.

They also are trying to get a downtown stadium in Tampa. They get that and they will be able to spend more. I guess then the orioles will have to find another team that does not spend as an example.The Rays have also outspent the Orioles on free agents in 2014.

[Dark Helmet]

I kind of get tired of the "Can't spend like the Yankees or Red Sox" and the "Need to develop like the Rays" arguments. Hell, only the Yankees, RS, and Dodgers can spend like that. Yet other teams still manage to win. Why do the Orioles have to be like the Yankees or Rays? Why can't they be a team like StL or the Giants? Develop a good core AND spend to put them over the top? The Orioles like to use the Yankees and RS as teams they can't spend with as over-extreme examples. They use the Rays as examples to be cheap. Why can't there be a middle ground?

[Frobby]

If you are an Oriole fan, complaining about Angelos is sort of like complaining about the weather in Baltimore. As Nick Markakis would say, "it is what it is."

We'll never know exactly what MASN produces or how much the Orioles could spend. All we know is that they have conducted themselves as though they are a middle market team. So, in that framework, should they be capable of building a good team? Yes. And for the time being, the team is pretty good, and an easy team to root for. So I'll root for them.

[Frobby]

I kind of get tired of the "Can't spend like the Yankees or Red Sox" and the "Need to develop like the Rays" arguments. Hell, only the Yankees, RS, and Dodgers can spend like that. Yet other teams still manage to win. Why do the Orioles have to be like the Yankees or Rays? Why can't they be a team like StL or the Giants? Develop a good core AND spend to put them over the top? The Orioles like to use the Yankees and RS as teams they can't spend with as over-extreme examples. They use the Rays as examples to be cheap. Why can't there be a middle ground?

There is a middle ground, and the Orioles routinely spend more than the Rays. Could they spend as much as the Cardinals and Giants? I don't know. I'm never going to know.

[Art Wing]

My biggest problem with all of this is that I think it's deeply unethical to consider MASN a completely separate entity from the Orioles. We see plenty of other owners using their TV network as cash infusions for their team.