Do you make this trade?

[Fan4Life]

But walking away with a deal you could have a month ago means AM's standoff was foolish.

Now, if he ends up trading BRob, Mora, Payton and Millar and adds another position player or 2(starter), then it won't matter but if he ends up not getting things done because he let the Bedard stuff drag out, then he clearly screwed up.

Hind sight is always 20-20... your logic makes little sense to me.... if he thought like you, we wouldn't have Moore, Cherry, etc on our team from the Trachsel trade. Holding out to see if you can get more and ending up with the same is a perfectly good gamble because you have Nothing to lose. Only if the deal becomes less, like Santana's reportedly is, did waiting hurt you. Now you will likely come up with some nonsense that all the time he waited on this deal to improve he could have been doing X, Y and Z... Nothing has changed on the landscape of his options since December. Unless you think losing Barajas or Dotel for $11m is a loss.

[Sports Guy]

Hind sight is always 20-20... your logic makes little sense to me.... if he thought like you, we wouldn't have Moore, Cherry, etc on our team from the Trachsel trade. Holding out to see if you can get more and ending up with the same is a perfectly good gamble because you have Nothing to lose. Only if the deal becomes less, like Santana's reportedly is, did waiting hurt you. Now you will likely come up with some nonsense that all the time he waited on this deal to improve he could have been doing X, Y and Z... Nothing has changed on the landscape of his options since December. Unless you think losing Barajas or Dotel for $11m is a loss.

Sure it has..You have that much less time to get things done. To trade what you have and to build your team...That is obvious.

It is one thing to wait and see if you can get more. Fine, don't do it immediately but we have been negotiating with Seattle for like 7-8 weeks.

We heard Bavasi's comments yesterday and I would bet his stance from yesterday is similar to the stance he had many many weeks ago. So, perhaps after negotiating for a month(ie beginning of the year) or so, you realize bavasi isn't going to give up the other top guy and you go down to the guys like Chen, Tui, Butler, et al....

We have been hearing, for well over a month, that this deal has been hung up by the 4th player...We have known this for a while.

[Fan4Life]

Sure it has..You have that much less time to get things done. To trade what you have and to build your team...That is obvious.

Who is no longer available that we could have had but waiting out the Bedard/Roberts deals caused us to lose out on?

[Sports Guy]

Who is no longer available that we could have had but waiting out the Bedard/Roberts deals caused us to lose out on?

I am not talking FAs...I have never mentioned FAs so stop putting words into my mouth.

I CLEARLY said TRADING WHAT YOU HAVE!!!!

[Fan4Life]

I am not talking FAs...I have never mentioned FAs so stop putting words into my mouth.

I CLEARLY said TRADING WHAT YOU HAVE!!!!

Let me rephrase it for you, who is no longer available VIA TRADE that we could have had, but missed out on for being so busy with Bedard/Roberts?

[Ruzious]

I said Yes. I'd expect to get Chen as well, but I wouldn't make that a deal-breaker. I'm believing the report that the O's are insisting that Triunfel or Morrow be included. And I also would not include Sherrill.

[Sports Guy]

Let me rephrase it for you, who is no longer available VIA TRADE that we could have had, but missed out on for being so busy with Bedard/Roberts?

You are totally missing what I am saying.

Its not who is gone or who isn't gone, it is do we have the time to do everything else we need to do??

As I said, if AM is still able to do everything in the next few weeks, then him waiting means nothing. If he is unable to accomplish those things and he gets a deal he could have had several weeks ago, he failed.

[Shopay]

Well, that was more wishful thinking...The deal I had been saying for a while was Jones, Clement, Tillman and Sherrill. This deal doesn't have Clement obviously.

If AM holds out and he gets this deal or Truinfel instead of Clement then isn't it mission accomplished?

If you would have told me on December 1 that this is the best we could get for Bedard, i wouldn't have believed you.(actually, i think the Dodgers could have beaten this but AM dropped ther ball on that one)

Based on Bavasi's comments, I believe they have just recently improved their offer, which would mean that it is better than it was in December. Now, am I trying to "read the tea leaves here" (i.e., speculating) -- sure, but so are you with your statements.

However, what it really comes down to is are you willing to risk Bedard getting hurt or whatever when you can walk away with a top young CFer, a very good pitching prospect and a guy who is likely going to be your closer who you can flip later.

I don't disagree with this. However, I have a different date for making this deal. I agree with AM playing a waiting game to see if Bavasi will sweeten the deal (which I believe he already has from the Decemeber offer). To have blinked in December, as you seem to suggest (i.e., AM is waiting too long, he should have done the deal by now, etc.), I don't agree with that.

That really is what it boils down to me. If the deal was Wlad, Clement, Tillman and Sherrill, i may not do that. But i think Jones is that good to the point where it would be tough for me to say no to the deal.

I agree that Jones must be in the deal.

Personally, i think we will get at least another player or 2 in the deal, if the deal happens.

I agree with this. And I don't think this would have occurred if AM accepted what the M's had on the table in December.

[Fairfax Bird]

This is just my opinion, but I don't think the Dodgers were ever considering giving us Kemp unless it was basically straight up (say Kemp and one other B or lower prospect). Kemp is too far along to be considered a prospect. He has huge value today at the ML level. I'll bet they were much more willing to give up Kershaw than Kemp. Again, just my opinion.

I agree, though you could probably link 50 articles with speculation that Kemp or Kershaw were available, unless you were on the phone with Colleti and MacPhail we will never know for sure.

[Sports Guy]

! As far as your concerned AM can't win no matter what he gets on this Seattle deal.

Amazing you got this from what i am saying.

Let me say it slow for you...I know it takes a few times with you sometimes:

1) If he does this deal and gets everything else done, no harm done in him waiting.

2) If he ends up getting Clement or Triunfel, along with the other 3, in the deal, then waiting appeared to help.

Under those 2 scenarios, AM will have "won".

You didn't like the Stros deal and now you stubbornly have come to straddling the fence on it.

Nothing to do with being stubborn. When I saw that Scott was supposedly much better defensively, that changed my mind some. I still say we didn't get anything really high ceiling and that we could have gotten higher ceiling guys if we were willing to pay some salary.

[smellycat]

Sports Guy, What do you want MctoPhail to do?

1 We have changed our spring home

2 We have upgraded in DR

3 We have started an Asia department.

What is not getting done within the orginaize that you want?

[DrungoHazewood]

I haven't read through this whole thread, or many of the hypothetical trade threads, but could someone tell me why Sherrill and Tillman are or aren't more-or-less-kinda-sorta Jamie Walker and Brandon Erbe?

[Fan4Life]

You are totally missing what I am saying.

Its not who is gone or who isn't gone, it is do we have the time to do everything else we need to do??

As I said, if AM is still able to do everything in the next few weeks, then him waiting means nothing. If he is unable to accomplish those things and he gets a deal he could have had several weeks ago, he failed.

MacPhail is running the show and must have determined that your time frame is an artifical one that he doesn't need to conform to. He has proven in the past as part of the Twins and Cubs organizations that he can make deals just about anytime along the way. When Opening day starts, and nothing has changed from now until then, then I may have to give your premis some credence.

[Sports Guy]

I haven't read through this whole thread, or many of the hypothetical trade threads, but could someone tell me why Sherrill and Tillman are or aren't more-or-less-kinda-sorta Jamie Walker and Brandon Erbe?

Tillman was more successful than Erbe has been, especially when you factor in his league(a hitters league) and park.

Sherrill has better stuff than Walker and is cheaper.

[DrungoHazewood]

Tillman was more successful than Erbe has been, especially when you factor in his league(a hitters league) and park.

Sherrill has better stuff than Walker and is cheaper.

OK, but aren't we just adding on to areas we already have decent solutions to? The O's aren't short on young pitching prospects fitting the basic description of Tillman, and Sherrill is (or appears to me to be) a 30-year-old LOOGY.

I'd think the O's should probably find a combination of players that better fills the big holes in the organization, like power hitters, center fielders (obviously Jones fits here), shortstops, etc.