Schoop Making the Team

[El Gordo]

This I completely agree with.

So he's good enough to make a real difference the next several weeks if we keep him up, but not good enough to worry about his service time?

[Sanfran327]

Depending on how long Manny is out the ASG might still be early to bring him back. To avoid super two, it seems he basically can only play about two and a half months this year. If he plays more than two weeks now, then it's more like some time in August.

Simmer down. ASG was just an example based on how long Manny is expected to be on the DL. Obviously, a longer stint on the DL and a longer stay on the ML roster for Schoop means a pushed-back recall.

[Sanfran327]

So he's good enough to make a real difference the next several weeks if we keep him up, but not good enough to worry about his service time?

The difference is making an impact in 2014 with a loaded up roster instead of 2020 when who knows what we'll look like.

[birrman54]

Can someone please show me an instance when a player of Schoop's relative prospect ranking was held back to avoid Super 2 status.

You do it for top 10 guys, you don't do it for #82.

The most notable ones are certainly top 10 players:

Wil Myers? BP2013 #7 overall, #1 in Rays organization. Called up in June.

Gerritt Cole was #3 for BP's 2013, Pirates called him up in June. Same with Zack Wheeler (BP #5)

In 2012 both Bryce Harper and Mike Trout were kept down to start the season, but ended up being called up in May due to injuries.

But just scanning through BP's top 101 in 2013 you can find some names where the same strategy is being used this year.

55: George Springer (Astros) - this one is the supposed grievance

89: Matt Davidson - strong spring, but will start the season in minors. I don't know enough about CWS to say if that's definitely why.

You can find lots of teams ignoring it too: Yordano Ventura, Kyle Gibson, Wily Peralta, Kolten Wong

[El Gordo]

Wil Myers? BP2013 #7 overall, #1 in Rays organization. Called up in June.

Gerritt Cole was #3 for BP's 2013, Pirates called him up in June. Same with Zack Wheeler (BP #5)

In 2012 both Bryce Harper and Mike Trout were kept down to start the season, but ended up being called up in May due to injuries.

Those are all top 10 guys.

[birrman54]

Yeah I misread at first - so I edited to make it more clear.

I think if you go through 2012 and 2011 you'll find more examples where the service time was utilized by teams. It's definitely not an open & shut case though - lots of teams don't seem to worry about it.

You also really can't say why a player was or wasn't called up. For ex in 2012 the Cubs didn't call up Anthony Rizzo until mid June - I can't know why. Jose Fernandez wasn't supposed to start the 2012 season except the Marlins lost 2 pitchers within a week of OD.

[Can_of_corn]

So he's good enough to make a real difference the next several weeks if we keep him up, but not good enough to worry about his service time?

That is not the argument I am making. I am not sure exactly where Weams stands on the issue.

[Sanfran327]

Yeah I misread at first - so I edited to make it more clear.

I think if you go through 2012 and 2011 you'll find more examples where the service time was utilized by teams. It's definitely not an open & shut case though - lots of teams don't seem to worry about it.

You also really can't say why a player was or wasn't called up. For ex in 2012 the Cubs didn't call up Anthony Rizzo until mid June - I can't know why. Jose Fernandez wasn't supposed to start the 2012 season except the Marlins lost 2 pitchers within a week of OD.

I think a team that considers itself a legit contender would let a player with Schoop's prospect status contribute right away in the right situation, which is where we find ourselves with Manny on the DL. IMO, it's safe to assume that a healthy Manny would mean no Schoop to start the season. Once Manny is back, I think Schoop is sent down, unless he's playing out of his mind. Pearce and Young will duke it out for a while in the meantime, and once will eventually yield for Schoop's return later in the year.

[weams]

So he's good enough to make a real difference the next several weeks if we keep him up, but not good enough to worry about his service time?

Not to worry about his super two status. A big difference. Many people confuse those two things.

[El Gordo]

I think a team that considers itself a legit contender would let a player with Schoop's prospect status contribute right away in the right situation, which is where we find ourselves with Manny on the DL. IMO, it's safe to assume that a healthy Manny would mean no Schoop to start the season. Once Manny is back, I think Schoop is sent down, unless he's playing out of his mind. Pearce and Young will duke it out for a while in the meantime, and once will eventually yield for Schoop's return later in the year.

The thing is if Schoop is tearing it up enough to be kept up when Manny comes back, he probably would be someone you'd like to maintain control over as long as possible.

[weams]

That is not the argument I am making. I am not sure exactly where Weams stands on the issue.

I believe that we should preserve his control status through monitoring his service time this season. Unless he he so great that it would be ridiculous. I believe super two status is unimportant.

[Can_of_corn]

I believe that we should preserve his control status through monitoring his service time this season. Unless he he so great that it would be ridiculous. I believe super two status is unimportant.

But specifically do you think he should start the year in Baltimore or Norfolk? Or do you think it doesn't make a difference?

[weams]

But specifically do you think he should start the year in Baltimore or Norfolk? Or do you think it doesn't make a difference?

I was on the Norfolk bandwagon. It appears the guys running the team think otherwise and that is ok. I still want the extra year of control. And No, I don't think it makes much difference, but Dan Duquette made a compelling case for evaluating him during Manny's absence.

[El Gordo]

I believe that we should preserve his control status through monitoring his service time this season. Unless he he so great that it would be ridiculous. I believe super two status is unimportant.

Why? According to Frobby he has less time he can be up this season, If he wants to avoid super two. 144 days to keep his clock from starting, 95 days for super two, unless we keep him down a lot next year.

[Frobby]

Not to worry about his super two status. A big difference. Many people confuse those two things.

Agreed. 7 years of control vs. 6 is a big deal. Super-Two costs money, but doesn't cost the player.

As to Schoop, there will be opportunities (maybe even necessity) to send him down, beginning with when Manny returns. If he turns out to be so good that sending him to the minors is unthinkable, I'd love to have that problem. Frankly, I don't expect that.