How many wins will the closer role cost the Orioles?

[Frobby]

Gausman was throwing it pretty fast last year while getting lit-up. Too many people on here are stuck on pitcher speed.

I couldn't agree more. Speed is great if it's accompanied by location and movement. Hunter throws hard, but he only struck out out 7.1 batters per 9 IP and he was fairly homer-prone. I consider him to have been an above average relief pitcher in 2013, but not a dominant one.

[mark_beckens]

I'm confused. Aren't O'Day's career splits vs. LHB much better than Hunter's, despite O'Day's off-year against LHB in 2013? I advocated for O'Day as the closer shortly after JJ was traded, but I didn't harp on the point long since the consensus seemed to be that the Orioles had chosen Hunter for the role and there wouldn't really be a competition for the role this spring. I'd still prefer O'Day, who in my mind is not only the better pitcher vs. LHB, but the better pitcher period. But at the same time, I think the difference between a pitcher who thows 70 innings or so in high leverage situations in the 7th/8th innings and one who does it in the 9th is pretty minimal, i.e., if Hunter and O'Day switched roles, it would make very little difference to the W/L.

That wasn't the point.

I posted O'Day's splits from last year and his career. They are not equal. Showing that what a player does one season doesn't mean that is what he's going to do another. That regression and progression can be had by any player.

[mark_beckens]

No offense, but you simply posted tables about Darren O'Day without context. I had no idea what point you were trying to make. This (above) is better, but you haven't made any case for Hunter getting better against lefties other than allowing for the possibility that people sometimes get better. You haven't offered any historical data which suggests that his recent lack of success against lefties is indicative of anything but future poor results against lefties.

I could make stats and data up to prove my point if you'd like. Wouldn't be the first time it's been done here. Sometimes the only way to know if someone can do something, anything. Is to give them the opportunity to succeed or fail. If you think they have the ability to do the job. You give it to them and hope they succeed. Do I know if he will or won't succeed. NO clue right now. But I'm not going to worry about something I have no control over. Waste of my time.

You're basically advocating for us to just hope his previous experience won't be the same this year. So, that's exactly what I'll do, but it doesnt' change my position on this issue.

You can think whatever you want. Your position on this issue won't change what Buck does.

[LookinUp]

You can think whatever you want. Your position on this issue won't change what Buck does.

There are people who drive themselves mad because their message board opinions don't get the GM to go after star players. I'm not that guy.

I'm just a guy on a board who wants to give an opinion about closers. It's not an extreme position, it's not close minded and it's definitely not written out of an attempt to influence Buck. Heck, my position could end up very similar to what Buck does in reality. Should be interesting to follow.

[weams]

There are people who drive themselves mad because their message board opinions don't get the GM to go after star players. I'm not that guy.

I'm just a guy on a board who wants to give an opinion about closers. It's not an extreme position, it's not close minded and it's definitely not written out of an attempt to influence Buck. Heck, my position could end up very similar to what Buck does in reality. Should be interesting to follow.

I think that the best manager that we have had with the exception of Earl Weaver and the possible exception of Davey Johnson will do what he thinks is right. And he may wish that the Orioles had kept Jim Johnson or signed another closer. I don't know. I know that many folks here question his bullpen management, but the industry as a whole lauds him for exactly that. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

[El Gordo]

I couldn't agree more. Speed is great if it's accompanied by location and movement. Hunter throws hard, but he only struck out out 7.1 batters per 9 IP and he was fairly homer-prone. I consider him to have been an above average relief pitcher in 2013, but not a dominant one.

You could say the same for JJ. Like Drungo says fireman is a much tougher job. That's why we have O'Day.

[Ruzious]

Hunter had an 0.98 WHIP last season. Even giving up homers at the rate he did, he proved he has what it takes to be an outstanding reliever. Even in his starting days, it was obvious he should be a successful reliever, because he was lights out in his first 30 pitches. Whether or not you like his stuff, the stats make it clear he has what it takes to succeed. People assuming he'll fail don't make any sense, imo.

[Can_of_corn]

Hunter had an 0.98 WHIP last season. Even giving up homers at the rate he did, he proved he has what it takes to be an outstanding reliever. Even in his starting days, it was obvious he should be a successful reliever, because he was lights out in his first 30 pitches. Whether or not you like his stuff, the stats make it clear he has what it takes to succeed. People assuming he'll fail don't make any sense, imo.

Not that I am predicting failure but I would feel better about Hunter if he would address his difficulties with lefties.

[El Gordo]

Not that I am predicting failure but I would feel better about Hunter if he would address his difficulties with lefties.

He got three of them out yesterday.

[Can_of_corn]

He got three of them out yesterday.

Well I guess that means he solved his issues!

[Frobby]

He got three of them out yesterday.

Great, he did well against lefties in one game. We are worried about career- long trends. I wish him well, but this is an obvious area of concern, along with his tendency to give up the long ball. On the plus side, he doesn't walk guys, he throws hard and he has more than one pitch he can show you, even if none of his secondaries are outstanding.

[slakattack]

Personally, l like a closer that can throw high heat... Tommy Boy can, now he needs to improve his change so he has more differentiation. Then Palmer will be saying: "ah, did you see that batter out in front, Tommy's got him in the rocking chair now"

[Ruzious]

I don't care even a little bit if he has troubles against lefties as long as - overall, he gets the job done. Everyone who's not the very best is going to have trouble against certain types of hitters. His overall performance is all that matters - not how he does against certain types of hitters.

[CA-ORIOLE]

May not need a closer at this rate.

[Can_of_corn]

May not need a closer at this rate.

Could replace him with someone that can go 2-3 innings every other day.