Peter Angelos' Redemption

[mrbig1]

Now, I'd like to see Mr. Angelos for once open up his wallet and sign all the O's players that are free agents. Keep this team together for another couple of years.

I want to see that too.

[beervendor]

You really are coming off as an Angelos apologist here. Teams don't fire mangers that just won 97 games and made the playoffs two years in a row. Angelos fired two winning managers in a 2+ year span, vetoed trades that would have made the team younger, fired two GM's in four years and then hired a clown, negotiated in a way that drove Raffy Palmeiro, Mike Mussina and Jon Miller out of town, and made us not just a losing team, but a truly dysfunctional organization. That's just a partial list of things he did.

All true, and it's been very (and justifiably) easy to vilify PA for all his post-1997 stewardship. But it was very same meddling/micromanaging of his that assembled the 97 juggernaut team. Who among us wouldn't have overestimated our own acumen after that sort of success? And from a man who might have never experienced real failure in his adult life? In retrospect, maybe we should all have seen those 14 years coming.

Don't mean to be a buzzkill during this amazing run. Just thought as we were all jockeying with family for baby names like "Buck" and "Duke" (and "Bud"?), we might consider lobbing some credit toward the owner.

[Redskins Rick]

All true, and it's been very (and justifiably) easy to vilify PA for all his post-1997 stewardship. But it was very same meddling/micromanaging of his that assembled the 97 juggernaut team. Who among us wouldn't have overestimated our own acumen after that sort of success? And from a man who might have never experienced real failure in his adult life? In retrospect, maybe we should all have seen those 14 years coming.

Don't mean to be a buzzkill during this amazing run. Just thought as we were all jockeying with family for baby names like "Buck" and "Duke" (and "Bud"?), we might consider lobbing some credit toward the owner.

Wrong answer.

Peter brought the team in 93 out of bankruptcy court.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teamstats/roster.php?y=1993&t=BAL

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teamstats/roster.php?y=1997&t=BAL

Compare the two rosters and you will see many of the same people.

[flyhighbirds]

So when the orioles lose, its because Angelos was meddling and when they win he's not. I just think some of you invent stuff to fit

your agendas. Most owners meddle. The fixation with Angelos is ridiculous.

[Redskins Rick]

So when the orioles lose, its because Angelos was meddling and when they win he's not. I just think some of you invent stuff to fit

your agendas. Most owners meddle. The fixation with Angelos is ridiculous.

Owners meddle, but at the time Angelos was extreme micromanager and it was pretty bad here. Some extremely poor decisions were made that impacted the team negatively. Players didnt want to play here.

This isn't fixation, but fact.

Gladly, things have changed for the better, and there is winning baseball back in town and nothing trumps that.

[mdbdotcom]

If this season serves as "redemption" for anyone, I think it's Buck Showalter. For years he was known as the smartest guy in the room, and he always had to let everyone know that. He micro-managed his teams and was combative with the front offices that had hired him. Teams couldn't wait to hire him and couldn't wait to get rid of him. The Rangers paid him for three years after firing him. Only after those payments ended did he come back to the dugout with the O's.

Personally, I was concerned that he would wear out his welcome in a hurry when the O's hired him.

Not unlike Dan Duquette, who was known for having lousy people skills when he was GM of the Red Sox, Buck has changed.

He manages an Orioles team that collectively and individually respects his judgment and would run through walls for him. He takes the pressure off his players, gives them all the credit, and accepts all the blame. He doesn't try to prove anything to his players, front office, or the press. He doesn't have to.

By understanding more about peoples' strengths and weaknesses, and how to accept all of it, Buck has gone from being a brilliant guy who came close to achieving great success to being one of the best managers in the game. This could be his year. He's earned it.

[atomic]

Owners meddle, but at the time Angelos was extreme micromanager and it was pretty bad here. Some extremely poor decisions were made that impacted the team negatively. Players didnt want to play here.

This isn't fixation, but fact.

Gladly, things have changed for the better, and there is winning baseball back in town and nothing trumps that.

Pitchers still don't want to play here. Short outfield fences more than the owner. Also I beleive the players that didn't want to play here signed for more elsewhere during pre DD days. For example, Texeira.

[ShaneDawg85]

So when the orioles lose, its because Angelos was meddling and when they win he's not. I just think some of you invent stuff to fit

your agendas. Most owners meddle. The fixation with Angelos is ridiculous.

When you consider that between 1997 and 2012, the period between Orioles playoff appearances that every team in baseball with the exception of three made the playoffs at least once and by my count all but one had at least one winning season during that time period, dismissing the "fixation" with Angelos is impossible. It cannot be ignored, because it was 100% justified.

[beervendor]

Wrong answer.

Peter brought the team in 93 out of bankruptcy court.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teamstats/roster.php?y=1993&t=BAL

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teamstats/roster.php?y=1997&t=BAL

Compare the two rosters and you will see many of the same people.

Not to quibble, but quibble I must. With a quick glance I see only Mussina, Rhodes, Hoiles, Ripken, Mills, Hammonds, and Brady as '97 players he inherited in '93. (Baines was on both teams, but left for CWS in the interim.) That PA was a micromananger is not in dispute, so he deserves at least *some* credit for adding Davey, Raffy, Alomar, Bonilla, Erickson, Key, Meyers, Bordick, Orosco, Eric Davis, Surhoff, Baines (again), and the immortal Pete Incaviglia. Not an apologist - he gets my largest slice of blame for the dark years, and not just for being the only one here for all 14 years - just saying if he gets the blame, he's entitled to some credit as well. And further I can see why someone who oversaw the assembly of that team might think (perhaps wrongly) that he knew a thing or two about baseball.

[Redskins Rick]

Not to quibble, but quibble I must. With a quick glance I see only Mussina, Rhodes, Hoiles, Ripken, Mills, Hammonds, and Brady as '97 players he inherited in '93. (Baines was on both teams, but left for CWS in the interim.) That PA was a micromananger is not in dispute, so he deserves at least *some* credit for adding Davey, Raffy, Alomar, Bonilla, Erickson, Key, Meyers, Bordick, Orosco, Eric Davis, Surhoff, Baines (again), and the immortal Pete Incaviglia. Not an apologist - he gets my largest slice of blame for the dark years, and not just for being the only one here for all 14 years - just saying if he gets the blame, he's entitled to some credit as well. And further I can see why someone who oversaw the assembly of that team might think (perhaps wrongly) that he knew a thing or two about baseball.

Adding Bonilla contract that had dead money that finally just came off the books, isn't something to brag about.

He gets the lion share of the blame, as the head of the organization and for all the wrong he did do.

So yes, let's give him some credit where credit is due, and he did hire Pat Gillick, who tried to build a team here.

14 years of losing, doesn't have much to give credit for.

[beervendor]

If this season serves as "redemption" for anyone, I think it's Buck Showalter. For years he was known as the smartest guy in the room, and he always had to let everyone know that. He micro-managed his teams and was combative with the front offices that had hired him. Teams couldn't wait to hire him and couldn't wait to get rid of him. The Rangers paid him for three years after firing him. Only after those payments ended did he come back to the dugout with the O's.

Personally, I was concerned that he would wear out his welcome in a hurry when the O's hired him.

Not unlike Dan Duquette, who was known for having lousy people skills when he was GM of the Red Sox, Buck has changed.

He manages an Orioles team that collectively and individually respects his judgment and would run through walls for him. He takes the pressure off his players, gives them all the credit, and accepts all the blame. He doesn't try to prove anything to his players, front office, or the press. He doesn't have to.

By understanding more about peoples' strengths and weaknesses, and how to accept all of it, Buck has gone from being a brilliant guy who came close to achieving great success to being one of the best managers in the game. This could be his year. He's earned it.

Couldn't agree more that Buck is the heart and soul of this team. But his redemption is in full swing - "genius," "chessmaster," and many other accolades are being heaped on him (all deservedly so). But this thread is the only mention of PA I've heard yet. I don't know if he's a good person; I know he's been a poor owner until recently. But he may be the greatest philanthropist our city/state has ever seen and deserves his moment in the (reportedly little?) time he has left.

[OFFNY]

On 10/5/2014 at 8:12 PM, beervendor said:

 

After building a reputation for micromanaging (meddling?) and taking much of the blame for running the organization into the proverbial ground, it appears that Peter Angelos finally learned how to do this ownership thing. He hired the management, and left the baseball people to do all of the baseballing. I'm not saying that it's time just yet, but a lot of folks in and around Baltimore (and the OH) might be owing Peter Angelos a big fat "Thank You" pretty soon. Pucker up, O's fans !!!

 

o

 

(3 AND-A-HALF YEARS LATER)

 

Redemption, Part II:

 

In spite of the fact that he spent a boatload of money on Chris Davis' 7-year contract 2 years earlier, Peter opened up his wallet and acquired BOTH Andrew Cashner AND Alex Cobb to give some help to Dylan Bundy and Kevin Gausman in the Orioles' starting rotation this season.

 

o

[Tx Oriole]

1 hour ago, OFFNY said:

o

 

(3 AND-A-HALF YEARS LATER)

 

Redemption, Part II:

 

In spite of the fact that he spent a boatload of money on Chris Davis' 7-year contract 2 years earlier, Peter opened up his wallet and acquired BOTH Andrew Cashner AND Alex Cobb to give some help to Dylan Bundy and Kevin Gausman in the Orioles' starting rotation this season.

 

o

I am very happy they got Cobb. Thank you Mr. Angelos. 

[OFFNY]

4 hours ago, OFFNY said:

o

 

(3 AND-A-HALF YEARS LATER)

 

Redemption, Part II:

 

In spite of the fact that he spent a boatload of money on Chris Davis' 7-year contract 2 years earlier, Peter opened up his wallet and acquired BOTH Andrew Cashner AND Alex Cobb to give some help to Dylan Bundy and Kevin Gausman in the Orioles' starting rotation this season.

 

o

 

 

3 hours ago, Tx Oriole said:

 

I am very happy that they got Cobb. Thank you, Mr. Angelos. 

 

o

 

And thank you, Dan Duquette.

I'm sure that he had a big hand in convincing Peter to open up his wallet for Cobb.

 

o

[Moose Milligan]

Thanks, Brady!