Peter Angelos' Redemption

[wlaw422]

Heh yep. I remember though this book at the library when I was in 6th grade or so. It was a neat book. Had stories about everyone in baseball from managers like Buck down to a beer vendor at OPACY. Anyhow, I just remember reading about Buck and the story talked a lot about how Buck's father who was a high school principal/baseball coach having a big impact on him. And I just remember thinking that Buck seemed like a good guy and that it was a shame that he had been the manager of the hated Yankees. I wish I could remember the book title. It also had stories in it about Durwood Merrill, Frank Thomas, and some career minor leaguer whose name escapes me. But I'm with you. I hope to never see Girardi manage for us. I don't like that guy. I respected Torre as an adversary but Girardi is a whiny jerk who turned us down claiming that it was his family and then went running as soon as the Yankees let Torre go.Buck is the better manager anyhow so we won.

The book you were wondering about: The good guys of baseball by Terry Egan. I got it when I was 7 I think? 24 now btw. And it's funny you mentioned it cause just last week I found it in my basement and read the buck story. As a young kid I don't even know if I could pronounce Showalter. But it was great going back and reading that bit...knowing the ride we are on now.

Also that led me to YouTube to try and find video of buck when he was the yanks manager, all I got was a clip from Seinfeld. But what I ended up watching were the brawls we had with Seattle at the Yard in the early 90's and the brawl @ old yankee stadium in 98 where Strawberry swings at Benitez. Amazing to look back on. Pardon any gramma/spelling /punctuation I'm typing from a tablet. GO O's!!

[Frobby]

I didn't know until today that Buck chose to wear #26 in honor of Johnny. Just one more thing that makes me love the man.

At the time, I thought it was a nice gesture. Now, looking back on it, I think "that is so like Buck."

[BradyBunch]

He's still a joke.

After he bought the team, he cleaned house in the warehouse. Non-baseball workers I mean; the accountants and secretaries and such that work for the team. The Orioles had a generous pension at the time and he didn't want to be on the hook for it, so over the course of his first few years, everyone who had been working there was let go for one reason or another. All those people who had given the team years of service, at a time when people still expected to spend their career with one company, had to start over somewhere else.

My aunt was one of them. I was like 12 and thought Angelos was a god because he was going to sign star players and make the Orioles win. I remember asking her about him when she was still working there (but evidently saw what was going on and knew what was coming), and her telling me that people weren't going to think he's so great once they find out what he's really all about. Was she ever right!

Remember when Peter wanted the MLB to fold the Pirates and Twins because small market teams couldn't hang? Then a couple years later we were one of them. Baltimore shrank when Peter discovered he could sell affordable tickets to a baseball city while spending just enough money to create just enough hype, and still make just as much money. It was only 14 years of losing from a baseball perspective. It was 14 years of winning for Peter Angelos.

He doesn't care about baseball, or people, or Baltimore. He cares about money. His "change of heart" and "learning the error of his ways" is nothing more than his finally getting too old to be as involved. Mercifully for us all, his sons like baseball.

LOL.

1st.. Jobs are cut all the time and new owners NEVER want to have massive legacy costs (pensions and such), so they reduce the size of the work force. It happens and it's actually sound business practice. You get rid of people who aren't on board or incompetent. Only 35 workers or the 90 that worked in the Warehouse either resigned or were fired.

2nd.. Orioles were bought by PA and co in bankruptcy court (auction). That means the Baltimore Orioles and it's previous owner, Eli Jacobs, couldn't pay his debts or future bills. Eli Jacobs was so broke he had his home repoed as he borrowed against his home. So the odds of anybody working in the Warehouse or for the O's was next to zero. They were lucky they got even an option of working for the Orioles when PA bought the team. The other bidder was the current owner of the Miami Marlins and he wanted to move a team down to Florida.

3rd.. O's had a few lean years starting in 1998/1999 til 2011. It happens, but if your team isn't preforming or you just can't keep up with the big boys, you make tickets affordable for the fans. Basically it's a way of saying this is what we are putting out there until we get to where we need to get so we aren't gonna charge your ticket prices to improve our profit margin.

4th.. During O's lean years they did sign and trade for "big" names at the time and did try to put a good team on the field. They traded for Charles Johnson, Melvin Mora, Tejada and Lopez to name a few. Hell, the 2004 team wasn't that bad of a team and could have been a wildcard team if not for a bad June and horrible record against the Yankees.

So it's perspective on how you see PA. Not saying he's the best owner ever, but he's not the worse.

[Redskins Rick]

LOL.

but he's not the worse.

Agree.

Worse baseball owner, has to be Robert Short, the Ex Senator owner.

That guy traded half his starting lineup (I know slight exaggeration ) for over the hill, drug taking and boozer Denny McLain.

Then moved the team to Texas.

[TonySoprano]

3rd.. O's had a few lean years starting in 1998/1999 til 2011. It happens, but if your team isn't preforming or you just can't keep up with the big boys, you make tickets affordable for the fans.

Fourteen years is not "a few lean years?" Fourteen? Now, I'm LOL. Second, NO new owner was going to be able to break the lease at OPACY and move the team. The "Angelos saved the team for Baltimore" story is a myth.

I'd like to agree with the rest of the argument, but when you put out examples like the ones above, it makes it hard to do so. The team is enjoying more success supposedly with less involvement from Angelos. Go figure.

[BradyBunch]

Fourteen years is not "a few lean years?" Fourteen? Now, I'm LOL. Second, NO new owner was going to be able to break the lease at OPACY and move the team. The "Angelos saved the team for Baltimore" story is a myth.

I'd like to agree with the rest of the argument, but when you put out examples like the ones above, it makes it hard to do so.

Yes, it was a few lean years. But let's think this out..Couple of those seasons the team was just 10 games or less from .500 or making the playoffs (need luck for it but it was possible). Such 1998, 1999, 2000, 2004 and 2005. Those team in 1998-2000 serious attempts were made to improve the team, probably was age was catching up to the team, be it Brady and Cal who were cornerstones of the 1990s teams. From 2006-2011 they were horrible. But this was also the period the O's rebuilt, traded and drafted pretty well to build the team we have now.

Tony, all leases are breakable, especially when it revolves around Bankruptcy. I am not saying Angelos saved the Orioles outright but if Angelos wanted out of the lease, he could have. Same with Loria.

[Redskins Rick]

Yes, it was a few lean years. But let's think this out..Couple of those seasons the team was just 10 games or less from .500 or making the playoffs (need luck for it but it was possible). Such 1998, 1999, 2000, 2004 and 2005. Those team in 1998-2000 serious attempts were made to improve the team, probably was age was catching up to the team, be it Brady and Cal who were cornerstones of the 1990s teams. From 2006-2011 they were horrible. But this was also the period the O's rebuilt, traded and drafted pretty well to build the team we have now.

Tony, all leases are breakable, especially when it revolves around Bankruptcy. I am not saying Angelos saved the Orioles outright but if Angelos wanted out of the lease, he could have. Same with Loria.

The 96-97 teams were very good clubs that made it to the ALCS twice.

Some of us fans, believe 98-2005 would have fare so much better, if they had kept Mussina and Davy around.

[PeteU]

The 96-97 teams were very good clubs that made it to the ALCS twice.

Some of us fans, believe 98-2005 would have fare so much better, if they had kept Mussina and Davy around.

Slightly better.

But it would have taken a hell of a lot more than that.

[TonySoprano]

Yes, it was a few lean years. But let's think this out..Couple of those seasons the team was just 10 games or less from .500 or making the playoffs (need luck for it but it was possible). Such 1998, 1999, 2000, 2004 and 2005. Those team in 1998-2000 serious attempts were made to improve the team, probably was age was catching up to the team, be it Brady and Cal who were cornerstones of the 1990s teams. From 2006-2011 they were horrible. But this was also the period the O's rebuilt, traded and drafted pretty well to build the team we have now.

Tony, all leases are breakable, especially when it revolves around Bankruptcy. I am not saying Angelos saved the Orioles outright but if Angelos wanted out of the lease, he could have. Same with Loria.

Do you seriously think MLB would have approved a move in 1993 when OPACY just opened the year before and became the model for all stadiums built thereafter? The All Star game was held here in 7/13/93. About three weeks later, Angelos' group bought the team, 8/2/93. MLB was going to allow any owner to leave? No chance. MLB was going to approve a second team in Florida in 1993? The Marlins started play that season.

14 is not a "few." Some years were "leaner" than others, and you noted 5 which you believed weren't as bad. Even if I were to buy into that part of your argument, that still leaves 9 other years which were lousy. There were nine years of 90+ losses including 5 in a row with win totals under 70. Your dictionary and mine are in disagreement about the word "few." .

Again, I give Angelos credit for checking his ego and letting the baseball people do their job. It has made all the difference.

[Redskins Rick]

Slightly better.

But it would have taken a hell of a lot more than that.

Remember, this was two back to back ALCS teams, they were very good teams. They were only a couple of relievers short of making the WS in 96.

[Palmoripken]

The book you were wondering about: The good guys of baseball by Terry Egan. I got it when I was 7 I think? 24 now btw. And it's funny you mentioned it cause just last week I found it in my basement and read the buck story. As a young kid I don't even know if I could pronounce Showalter. But it was great going back and reading that bit...knowing the ride we are on now.

Also that led me to YouTube to try and find video of buck when he was the yanks manager, all I got was a clip from Seinfeld. But what I ended up watching were the brawls we had with Seattle at the Yard in the early 90's and the brawl @ old yankee stadium in 98 where Strawberry swings at Benitez. Amazing to look back on. Pardon any gramma/spelling /punctuation I'm typing from a tablet. GO O's!!

Yes that's it! Thanks. I would have remembered that cover.

[Redskins Rick]

Yes that's it! Thanks. I would have remembered that cover.

http://www.amazon.com/Good-Guys-Baseball-Terry-Egan/dp/0689833180/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1412775868&sr=8-2&keywords=terry+egan

[BradyBunch]

The 96-97 teams were very good clubs that made it to the ALCS twice.

Some of us fans, believe 98-2005 would have fare so much better, if they had kept Mussina and Davy around.

You mean like when Moose pitched for the O's for another two years (til 2000)? The O's didn't appoint some backwater coaches after Davy.. Ray Miller and Mike Hargrove.

Facts are the 1998-2001 orioles were old. 1998 team average age for position plus DH was 34 years old. Youngest starter was 27 in 1999.

[Yardball85]

You mean like when Moose pitched for the O's for another two years (til 2000)? The O's didn't appoint some backwater coaches after Davy.. Ray Miller and Mike Hargrove.

Facts are the 1998-2001 orioles were old. 1998 team average age for position plus DH was 34 years old. Youngest starter was 27 in 1999.

So what? It was still idiotic to fire Davy after he led the team to two straight ALCS's.

[BradyBunch]

Do you seriously think MLB would have approved a move in 1993 when OPACY just opened the year before and became the model for all stadiums built thereafter? The All Star game was held here in 7/13/93. About three weeks later, Angelos' group bought the team, 8/2/93. MLB was going to allow any owner to leave? No chance. MLB was going to approve a second team in Florida in 1993? The Marlins started play that season.

Who knows, baseball is business. Lots of things can happen for the right price considering in 1992 the SF Giants almost moved to Tampa but owners nixed the deal. Also the team could have easily folded and been part of 1995 expansion.

14 is not a "few." Some years were "leaner" than others, and you noted 5 which you believed weren't as bad. Even if I were to buy into that part of your argument, that still leaves 9 other years which were lousy. There were nine years of 90+ losses including 5 in a row with win totals under 70. Your dictionary and mine are in disagreement about the word "few." .

What I am pointing out is that say the O's go .500 plus in 1998, 1999, 2000, 2004 and 2005 (which as a team they had the ability to be that those seasons) can you seriously say it was a long dry spell? No, you really can't in reality it was 7 years in which the Orioles didn't compete at all and those 7 years of which 5 of them were 90 plus lost seasons. In terms of baseball history, that's a few years. That's nothing compared to the Royals who had 20 losing seasons.