Roberts Must Go

[davearm]

If the Cubs are the only suitor now then doesn't it make more sense to wait and trade Roberts at the trade deadline? You will have more teams interested. Pie and Murton will still not be integral parts of the cubs team, so they will still be available. Plus you get to see what Pie can do in half a season. Roberts trade value will not have dropped that much, and may even rise.

LOL, if Pie does well in that half a season he'll be way more untouchable than he is now.

If he's available now, which is far more unlikely than not, it's only because of questionmarks. Remove the questionmarks and the guy is completely out of reach in a Roberts deal.

[Rob H]

If the Cubs are the only suitor now then doesn't it make more sense to wait and trade Roberts at the trade deadline? You will have more teams interested. Pie and Murton will still not be integral parts of the cubs team, so they will still be available. Plus you get to see what Pie can do in half a season. Roberts trade value will not have dropped that much, and may even rise.

While Roberts' value probably wont drop all that much, the type of player you get in deadline deals is drastically different than the kind you get during the offseason.

[Camden_yardbird]

While Roberts' value probably wont drop all that much, the type of player you get in deadline deals is drastically different than the kind you get during the offseason.

Fine, so what if you don't get Pie. If the goal in trading Roberts is to fill needs then you don't need Pie.

Second, the type of player you get in a deadline deal does not need to be the type of player who can contribute right away. Someone who can finish the year in the MiL and contribute next year is just as good.

As long as you are willing to accept back players who will not contribute right away there are many options available. You can still get top tier prospects back.

[Intimidator301]

IMO, before I would just give Roberts away in a Cubs deal, I would explore deals that may not be as " sexy " so to speak.

The Angels need LH help in their BP. Why not a deal like flipping Sherill+Huff/Millar+Cash ( If need be ) for Erik Aybar, Casey Kotchman, and a lesser prospect.

That allows us to get a SS atleast as good as Cedeno, another young bat, and if Roberts walks after 09, we get 2 picks.

1. Roberts 2b

2. Mora 3b

3. Markakis rf

4. Milar/Huff dh ( whichever stays )

5. Scott lf

6. Jones cf

7. Kotchman 1b

8. Hernandez c

9. Aybar ss

Would that deal work?

[byrdz]

The Angels need LH help in their BP. Why not a deal like flipping Sherill+Huff/Millar+Cash ( If need be ) for Erik Aybar, Casey Kotchman, and a lesser prospect.

I'm pretty sure Kotchman is untouchable at this point.

[Number5]

While Roberts' value probably wont drop all that much, the type of player you get in deadline deals is drastically different than the kind you get during the offseason.

Yes, we might even be offered players that play at the deadline. Really, you can't be saying that the Cubs won't offer at least what they are offering now if they are looking to trade for Roberts at the deadline can you? They aren't offering anything that they figure to be relying on.

[skiba7]

I thought I'd post this in this thread since we've been discussing Roberts on the Cubs. In Peace's thread about bedard taking his physical tomorrow, bigbird said he is hearing that the Cubs have an offer on the table of Gallagher, Veal, Murton, and Cedeno for Roberts. Discuss.

[Roll Tide]

I thought I'd post this in this thread since we've been discussing Roberts on the Cubs. In Peace's thread about bedard taking his physical tomorrow, bigbird said he is hearing that the Cubs have an offer on the table of Gallagher, Veal, Murton, and Cedeno for Roberts. Discuss.

Swish !!! Slam Dunk !!!

[Number5]

I thought I'd post this in this thread since we've been discussing Roberts on the Cubs. In Peace's thread about bedard taking his physical tomorrow, bigbird said he is hearing that the Cubs have an offer on the table of Gallagher, Veal, Murton, and Cedeno for Roberts. Discuss.

This is the best rumored offer from the Cubs yet. Waiting does seem to improve the offers. If we can work a trade with another team for a top SS/2B prospect pending this trade, it might be worth considering. If not, holding off might still be the best course.

[Roll Tide]

This is the best rumored offer from the Cubs yet. Waiting does seem to improve the offers. If we can work a trade with another team for a top SS/2B prospect pending this trade, it might be worth considering. If not, holding off might still be the best course.

I think Mcphail is looking to add other pieces. He will do what is necessary.

Consider this Flanny would have taken Marshall, Cedeno & Gallagher

[luismatos]

Murton & Gallagher are talented players... Roberts wont make much of a difference on this team. His value is high. No reason to wait ...A 4 player deal that include these guys as #1 & #2 is fair value & makes us better in the future.

I havent seen a rumor of a better deal

I find it funny that people are jumping to the conclusion that Murton and Gallagher are being offered. The deal that we all thought was a done one was Gallagher, Cedeno, and Marshall. Murton is not in that package...plus it is three for one, not four.

How does this package help us? Cedeno could eventually be better than Luis Hernandez. But, he probably isn't right now, and in all likelihood, he won't be much better if he ever does get better than LH. People claiming that this is a good trade are saying Gallagher has a ceiling as a 2/3, but I have heard 3/4...so let's compromise and say that his ceiling is as a 3. How many people do we have already who are #3 ceiling players. A ton. Why do we need another one, when we already have 7 players or so competing for rotation spots 4 and 5 right now. Marshall has a ceiling of 4/5, which is even worse. Why would we trade an All-Star second baseman who is classy, a good community presence, obviously good, and plays the game the right way for that group of players?

If they add Murton, which is a BIG if, that might make the deal at least make more sense because Murton does have some significant upside. However, he is at the low end of the players I think any package for Roberts should be centered around. And I have not heard anything about the Cubbies being willing to add him into the deal. So, why bother talking about him like he's in the deal, when all indications are that he is not.

Like I said before...Marmol, Pie, and Miller are all guys I would consider as the starting point to a package. Without them, I think looking to make a deal with the Indians or Cubs is pretty pointless.

[Number5]

I find it funny that people are jumping to the conclusion that Murton and Gallagher are being offered. The deal that we all thought was a done one was Gallagher, Cedeno, and Marshall. Murton is not in that package...plus it is three for one, not four.

How does this package help us? Cedeno could eventually be better than Luis Hernandez. But, he probably isn't right now, and in all likelihood, he won't be much better if he ever does get better than LH. People claiming that this is a good trade are saying Gallagher has a ceiling as a 2/3, but I have heard 3/4...so let's compromise and say that his ceiling is as a 3. How many people do we have already who are #3 ceiling players. A ton. Why do we need another one, when we already have 7 players or so competing for rotation spots 4 and 5 right now. Marshall has a ceiling of 4/5, which is even worse. Why would we trade an All-Star second baseman who is classy, a good community presence, obviously good, and plays the game the right way for that group of players?

If they add Murton, which is a BIG if, that might make the deal at least make more sense because Murton does have some significant upside. However, he is at the low end of the players I think any package for Roberts should be centered around. And I have not heard anything about the Cubbies being willing to add him into the deal. So, why bother talking about him like he's in the deal, when all indications are that he is not.

Like I said before...Marmol, Pie, and Miller are all guys I would consider as the starting point to a package. Without them, I think looking to make a deal with the Indians or Cubs is pretty pointless.

We are on the same page. The Gallagher/Marshall/Cedeno trade was a rumor and never a done deal. The rumored Cub offers keep getting progressively better, but still lack a headliner like Marmol or Pie. This most recent rumor of Gallagher/Murton/Veal/Cedeno is definitely the best rumor yet, but I'm with you that we should continue to hold off, unless AM has worked another deal with another team to pull in a headliner.

I would like to hear more about any talks we may be having with Cleveland.

[Rob H]

I thought I'd post this in this thread since we've been discussing Roberts on the Cubs. In Peace's thread about bedard taking his physical tomorrow, bigbird said he is hearing that the Cubs have an offer on the table of Gallagher, Veal, Murton, and Cedeno for Roberts. Discuss.

That deal would make me sick...

If the Cubs were smart enough to play Cedeno over Theriot, that alone would be worth the upgrade from DeRosa to Roberts. And even if you don't believe that, you have to believe that the difference would be covered from those times Murton would be playing in LF or RF due to injuries or facing tough lefties for Fukudome. Trading those two for Roberts is a lateral move... and then we'd be tossing in two prospects that I'm huge on.

Disgusting.

[DrungoHazewood]

How does this package help us? Cedeno could eventually be better than Luis Hernandez. But, he probably isn't right now, and in all likelihood, he won't be much better if he ever does get better than LH.

Luis Hernandez is only as good as Cedeno if Cedeno tanks and Hernandez fields like Adam Everett. Once you feed their numbers into the magical translation machine you end up with LH putting up a likely sub-.600 OPS, and Cedeno ending up somewhere north of .700, maybe approaching .800. If LH is one of the best fielding shortstops in the world he might be +25 runs, and if Cedeno is worse than Miguel Tejada he might be -10 and that might make up the difference on offense. If both are closer to average Cedeno is a better player, and has the offensive potential to be much better.

I know LH doesn't have a lot of time in AAA, but his OPS there is 400 points (!) lower than Cedeno's.

[thundercleetz]

Luis Hernandez is only as good as Cedeno if Cedeno tanks and Hernandez fields like Adam Everett. Once you feed their numbers into the magical translation machine you end up with LH putting up a likely sub-.600 OPS, and Cedeno ending up somewhere north of .700, maybe approaching .800. If LH is one of the best fielding shortstops in the world he might be +25 runs, and if Cedeno is worse than Miguel Tejada he might be -10 and that might make up the difference on offense. If both are closer to average Cedeno is a better player, and has the offensive potential to be much better.

I know LH doesn't have a lot of time in AAA, but his OPS there is 400 points (!) lower than Cedeno's.

I think Cedeno would play 2B if we got him in a Roberts trade. We would just cut our losses on offense with LH and bat him ninth, and take the stellar defense he gives us.