Anyone have a compass ??? Need direction

[O'sHeelsFan]

I do believe this is a matter of 1) market value and 2) there are more people employed than the players.

Wedge, while I get that payroll and ticket prices don't have to have a direct correlation (and probably never have) - I don't see these two points as great arguments for raising prices either.

1) I gotta think market value hasn't gone up recently, given the fact that attendance has been down year to year for at least a couple of years. And

2) Haven't there always been more people employed than the players? Did some non-player get a big raise? We certainly aren't paying Trembley a bunch, or any of the other coaches.

No matter how you slice it, raising ticket prices for a clearly rebuilding team is a tough pill to swallow, IMO. But then again, I don't pay for tickets anyway - I get 'em free from work

[The Wedge]

a couple simple points , then I'll close my opinion on this . 1. I thought the purpose of this hangout , was to voice a variety of opinions on the Orioles , and not to play English teacher to every keystroke of a person's type ? 2. All I'm saying is , the next thing the brass will tell you is that they need starter quality pitching , and they just p'd one away . 3. 6 years $100 million for a ace starter like Bedard is fair market price going by the numbers . Now if anyone can argue with me on those 3 points , then I must be overmatched intellegence wise on here , and will conceed

1) We need to be able to read your posts. Using proper grammar and syntax goes a million miles there.

2) Maybe, but you're speculating on what they might say. And this is completely discounting the possibility that our young arms blossom and we'll have a pitcher thats even better in a few years.

3) You can't pay someone something they don't want to accept. All the signs pointed to Bedard not wanting to hang around at reasonable levels. I'm sorry, but in the MLB with guaranteed contracts, more than 3 years on a pitcher is russian roulette. Go ask the Rangers how that Chan Ho Park contract worked out for them.

I don't need a compass to see which way the wind shines.

[Maverick2143]

Not all gloomy about a rebuilding , and actually support it , but you have to keep some stability . We lose Miggy , Bedard , and possibly Roberts . That's alot to give up . Granted , we will have a better , more stable outfield with Scott , Markakis , Jones , but where's the pitching ? It's gonna be a long 3 seasons waiting for the likes of Liz , Olson , Lowen to develop . We need a shortstop , probably a 2nd baseman , and stick a fork in Mora , he's done . Gibbons is a needle freak , Millar can only hit a fastball (sometimes !) , Cabrera will never be , and we seem to only be producing 'Tommy John ' future surgery type pitchers from the minor league levels .

Continuity is a good thing as long as you have something worth continuing.

In this case I think we have seen enough to realize that a different path is necessary.

[The Wedge]

Wedge' date=' while I get that payroll and ticket prices don't have to have a direct correlation (and probably never have) - I don't see these two points as great arguments for raising prices either.

1) I gotta think market value hasn't gone up recently, given the fact that attendance has been down year to year for at least a couple of years. And

2) Haven't there always been more people employed than the players? Did some non-player get a big raise? We certainly aren't paying Trembley a bunch, or any of the other coaches.

No matter how you slice it, raising ticket prices for a clearly rebuilding team is a tough pill to swallow, IMO. But then again, I don't pay for tickets anyway - I get 'em free from work [/quote']

Every year there (should be anyway) a cost of living salary increase for every person employed there. It starts adding up. And here's the rub...if attendance is down, they gotta get that money recouped...

Also, and I'm not 100% on this, but I think another aspect is that our tickets were actually a bit lower compared to other teams. So it's not like a complete screwing, just a market value increase in that regard, as well.

[StunninSteve]

a couple simple points , then I'll close my opinion on this . 1. I thought the purpose of this hangout , was to voice a variety of opinions on the Orioles , and not to play English teacher to every keystroke of a person's type ? 2. All I'm saying is , the next thing the brass will tell you is that they need starter quality pitching , and they just p'd one away . 3. 6 years $100 million for a ace starter like Bedard is fair market price going by the numbers . Now if anyone can argue with me on those 3 points , then I must be overmatched intelligence wise on here , and will conceed

HE DOES NOT WANT TO RESIGN!!! That's the one and only point you need to know.

And if he doesn't want to resign, then you TRADE HIM and get as much talent in return for him. So you're giving up a total of 2 years in Bedard and now getting a total of 25+ years in the 5 players that we'll be getting in return...

[Mackus]

a couple simple points , then I'll close my opinion on this . 1. I thought the purpose of this hangout , was to voice a variety of opinions on the Orioles , and not to play English teacher to every keystroke of a person's type ? 2. All I'm saying is , the next thing the brass will tell you is that they need starter quality pitching , and they just p'd one away . 3. 6 years $100 million for a ace starter like Bedard is fair market price going by the numbers . Now if anyone can argue with me on those 3 points , then I must be overmatched intelligence wise on here , and will conceed

1) There are rules to the forum about spelling and punctuation.

2) Yes, we will need a #1 starter by the time we are ready to compete. Maybe one of our guys develops into that, maybe we have to go out and get one. But the bottom line is the odds of us building a winner around Bedard are much slimmer than the odds of us finding a #1 once we have build a contending team through the rebuild, IMO. Plus, the odds of Bedard still being an ace in 3 years when we have a contender aren't guaranteed, although its still likely.

3) That's actually too much for Bedard, considering he's not a FA and we'd only have to pay him $8M this year and ~$12M next year. The problem isn't that we won't pay him, its that Bedard won't let us. He has no interest in signing an extension in Baltimore. That's the biggest reason he needs to be traded. If we could extend him, that would be a good option, but the fact is he won't consider it, so he absolutely must be traded.

[Hank Scorpio]

a couple simple points , then I'll close my opinion on this . 1. I thought the purpose of this hangout , was to voice a variety of opinions on the Orioles , and not to play English teacher to every keystroke of a person's type ? 2. All I'm saying is , the next thing the brass will tell you is that they need starter quality pitching , and they just p'd one away . 3. 6 years $100 million for a ace starter like Bedard is fair market price going by the numbers . Now if anyone can argue with me on those 3 points , then I must be overmatched intelligence wise on here , and will conceed

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/announcement.php?f=6

[StunninSteve]

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/announcement.php?f=6

After 500 posts you can't post anymore unless you're a plus member? I didn't know that.

That stinks I guess I should have read the fine print.

[O'sHeelsFan]

Every year there (should be anyway) a cost of living salary increase for every person employed there. It starts adding up. And here's the rub...if attendance is down, they gotta get that money recouped...

Also, and I'm not 100% on this, but I think another aspect is that our tickets were actually a bit lower compared to other teams. So it's not like a complete screwing, just a market value increase in that regard, as well.

Fair enough on the living salary increase, and you may be right about recouping lost money from down attendance. I don't want this to turn into a huge back and forth. My main point is, its a tough pill to swallow from the general public perspective, regardless of the logic/reasons behind it.

And I predict we set a record low in attendance at a single game sometime in April

[WilliamGoode]

Since I'm so 'Out of Touch ' , as you say it , then I guess it's senseless , for me to solidify these couple of tidbit points , but for poops and giggles , I'll do it anyway . It was quoted that "Erik would be willing to sign an extension of a 6 year deal nearing $100 million" (quote The Sun) , Yes giving Bedard a six year deal would be worth it , because unlike the O's , most rebuilding teams don't take 5 or 6 years for that matter . And to finish my 'Out Of Touch ' fan view . Just because Jones hit those numbers in AAA , doesn't bode well with the going track record of our scouts . We also had a kid hit those numbers 2 years ago that we picked up last year in a similar trade . He absolutely mashed the ball at the AAA level , and couldn't hit a barn in the majors . (Name escapes memory , sorry

[The Wedge]

We sign Bedard to 6 year 100 mil deal.

He reblows elbow in year 2.

Gets paid 100 mil for 1 and half years service.

O's screwed again on stupid contract.

[BMann]

If the O's called Bedard's agent and offered him 7/140, I figure Erik would suddenly become a very happy Oriole-For-Life. All the "BEDARD HAD NO INTEREST IN RE-SIGNING HERE!" talk seems slightly disingenuous. Yeah, he wasn't going to sign here for anywhere near market value, but if Angelos really wanted the guy, he could make it happen. "Money Talks" isn't just an overused cliche.

Am I saying we should've ridiculously overpaid for Bedard instead of dealing him? No. But I believe it was an option. And if he goes off and wins 120 games over the next 7 years, we very well might be kicking ourselves that we DIDN'T pay him the moon. IMO, a big-time starter is a great piece around which to start rebuilding - possibly the best piece.

Bottom line for me, though: If EB was 25 years old and had a few 200+ injury-free seasons under his belt, I could be on board for the mega-contract. Pushing 30, with a spotty injury history, though, EB needs to go, and go NOW.

[crstrobel]

Since I'm so 'Out of Touch ' , as you say it , then I guess it's senseless , for me to solidify these couple of tidbit points , but for poops and giggles , I'll do it anyway . It was quoted that "Erik would be willing to sign an extension of a 6 year deal nearing $100 million" (quote The Sun) , Yes giving Bedard a six year deal would be worth it , because unlike the O's , most rebuilding teams don't take 5 or 6 years for that matter . And to finish my 'Out Of Touch ' fan view . Just because Jones hit those numbers in AAA , doesn't bode well with the going track record of our scouts . We also had a kid hit those numbers 2 years ago that we picked up last year in a similar trade . He absolutely mashed the ball at the AAA level , and couldn't hit a barn in the majors . (Name escapes memory , sorry

(Bold 1)

He did? Care to provide a link? I don't remember that being the case at all. How hard is it to understand that the man dosen't want to be here?

(Bold 2)

I think you are thinking of Jon Knott. Are you really comparing Jon Knott to Adam Jones. Please stop posting, you're wasting our time.

[Hank Scorpio]

Since I'm so 'Out of Touch ' , as you say it , then I guess it's senseless , for me to solidify these couple of tidbit points , but for poops and giggles , I'll do it anyway . It was quoted that "Erik would be willing to sign an extension of a 6 year deal nearing $100 million" (quote The Sun) , Yes giving Bedard a six year deal would be worth it , because unlike the O's , most rebuilding teams don't take 5 or 6 years for that matter . And to finish my 'Out Of Touch ' fan view . Just because Jones hit those numbers in AAA , doesn't bode well with the going track record of our scouts . We also had a kid hit those numbers 2 years ago that we picked up last year in a similar trade . He absolutely mashed the ball at the AAA level , and couldn't hit a barn in the majors . (Name escapes memory , sorry

Maybe you're not out of touch, but you're certainly not up to date.

Read this : http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3221864

[WilliamGoode]

Will work on grammar , sorry to all that had to read between the lines of my typing . Sorry Tony ! But in my defense , what has Jones done at the major league level , to justify a starting centerfield job ? No matter , we'll all be talking about 'What could have beens' and 'Should have beens ' next time this year .