John Angelos Shared this

[weams]

The Pirates have acquired catcher Francisco Cervelli from the Yankees.

[Nevermore]

I am a product of cutting my teeth on baseball from the 40's, and I agree with you completely, Dipper. It is a reflection to some extent of this "throw away' society. "Things" are often thrown away before their time. People , too, are routinely tossed. We see it everywhere now a days, from the workplace to the marriages. Without a mid 20th century perspective, I guess it is hard to realize the former attachment to players. IMO sooooo much is lost by no longer growing up with, or aging with "my' baseball players. Someone posted, concerning Nick, about sentimentality. In my day it was called loyalty, unashamedly so, fans/players.

Wow, I thought I was quaint and old fashioned with my attachment to 'my players'. To me, a team is made up of 'my players'. I thought that I was the only one who thought like that, but it looks like I have plenty of company. Many fans talk about 'what we need' or else some player's WAR, being minisculy (is this a word?) better than our current guy. Don't get me wrong; numbers and stats are important, but not when they are excuses for tossing away one of our players.

I was overjoyed when it was announced that JJ Hardy had his contract extended. After rooting for Nelson Cruz all year, I do NOT want to see him in pin stripes or wearing red socks. Nick Markakis is a special case. But I remember when Mike Mussina wound up with the Yankees after all of those years with my Os - I was shocked. I don't want to lose Nick in the same way.

[hoosiers]

I like the article generally, but I must say that the Pirates lamenting losing one player to the NYY is a bit comical. Maybe they would like to switch divisions and compete against the NYY or BoSox.

I mean, the article talks about Carl Crawford and Sabathia, but those moves feel like they happened eons ago. Where was this author then? Where was the author when the NYY bid insane $ for Tex, outbid the Os for Mussina, paid the big $ to ARod, outspent everyone for Tanaka and others with posting fees?

I also find some irony in the author mentioning fans growing attached to players, but the Pirates are Martin's third team and Martin has only been in Pittsburgh for two years! I say let the NYY sign Martin for big $ in a five year deal and then find a place to put the then 34 year old catcher in three years when his skills deteriorate and he becomes more injury prone.

So, the author drawing the line at Russell Martin is a bit comical, the guy is only about five to 10 years late to the party, but I guess we will welcome him to the party nonetheless.

[birrman54]

Wow, I thought I was quaint and old fashioned with my attachment to 'my players'. To me, a team is made up of 'my players'. I thought that I was the only one who thought like that, but it looks like I have plenty of company. Many fans talk about 'what we need' or else some player's WAR, being minisculy (is this a word?) better than our current guy. Don't get me wrong; numbers and stats are important, but not when they are excuses for tossing away one of our players.

I was overjoyed when it was announced that JJ Hardy had his contract extended. After rooting for Nelson Cruz all year, I do NOT want to see him in pin stripes or wearing red socks. Nick Markakis is a special case. But I remember when Mike Mussina wound up with the Yankees after all of those years with my Os - I was shocked. I don't want to lose Nick in the same way.

But Cruz wasn't an Oriole in 2013 and you didn't have an issue rooting for him in 2014. Why would other players be different? He's 'our' player after one season? If Cruz ends up under-performing relative to the contract he'll receive I'd much rather see him Boston or NY than here.

Nick and JJ have been O's for a long time, I wouldn't have extended JJ but I wasn't going to complain about it - he's an elite defender at a premium position. Nick has been a career Oriole but he's also been very well paid, if he's going to really insist on an overpay I just don't think it's the Orioles' responsibility to be the one to give it to him.

[weams]

Nick has been a career Oriole but he's also been very well paid, if he's going to really insist on an overpay I just don't think it's the Orioles' responsibility to be the one to give it to him.

I think the Orioles would like to keep him though, even if they don't feel that responsibility.

[sportsfan8703]

I take from this is that we're expecting to lose someone in the next year or two to one of the big boys. The best thing for O's fans to do is root for good years from McCann and Tex so they wont be in the MW and Davis bidding.

[Nevermore]

But Cruz wasn't an Oriole in 2013 and you didn't have an issue rooting for him in 2014. Why would other players be different? He's 'our' player after one season? If Cruz ends up under-performing relative to the contract he'll receive I'd much rather see him Boston or NY than here.

Hey, once a player becomes an Oriole, he becomes one of 'my players.' Each year is different. I even consider Andrew Miller and DeAza as 'my players' even though they came to us during the middle of the 2014 season. Alas, it doesn't look as though the Os will be able to keep Miller, so he won't be 'my player' any longer, which is too bad. But I want to see My Guy Nelson Cruz come back to us. And Nick as well.

[25 Nuggets]

I take from this is that we're expecting to lose someone in the next year or two to one of the big boys. The best thing for O's fans to do is root for good years from McCann and Tex so they wont be in the MW and Davis bidding.

Um, naaah... I hope they both have terrible seasons and that they help the Yankees repeat their mediocrity, meaning one less competitor for the division crown. Year-by-year basis.

[atomic]

I take from this is that we're expecting to lose someone in the next year or two to one of the big boys. The best thing for O's fans to do is root for good years from McCann and Tex so they wont be in the MW and Davis bidding.

If Davis has another year like last season he will be looking at aminor league contract.

[osfan83]

The end of the steroid era has done more to promote parity in baseball than any attempts by the owners to rein in salary. No longer are most players able to maintain peak level performance into their mid 30's, when they are eligible for free agency and available to the highest bidder. Now most players don't hit free agency until they are on the downside of their careers and thus the impact of money is less pronounced.

Winner. This is exactly what happened over the past few years. Small market teams now develop and hold their stars until they turn 30...and the big market teams now pay big dollars for their decline. It's getting harder for the Yanks to sign 6 31 year old stars and keep them at peak production level for 7 more years. Look at Tex, we all thought he would be a beast for them...he has been average to slightly above at best.

[weams]

Look at Tex, we all thought he would be a beast for them...he has been average to slightly above at best.

He has been pretty much awful. Most of the big FA deals are very bad.

[DrungoHazewood]

I don't see why they can't get it done. Works for the rest of sports... and it allows teams a better opportunity to market long term players. Find a middle ground in terms of budgets and get the union behind it. Share revenues and force the small market teams to spend 90mil on their team with a cap at like 145mil.

The owners bought into the current system. The big market owners will fight to the death to keep their franchise values. If you force the Yanks to a relatively even local revenue level with the Orioles or Royals then the Yanks' value will go down by hundreds of millions of dollars. Even if MLB could impose some kind of a cap/revenue sharing/floor/whatever system they'd find themselves in a protracted, ugly, public court battle with the rich teams.

It's a million times easier to randomize the playoffs and claim parity.

I am a product of cutting my teeth on baseball from the 40's, and I agree with you completely, Dipper. It is a reflection to some extent of this "throw away' society. "Things" are often thrown away before their time. People , too, are routinely tossed. We see it everywhere now a days, from the workplace to the marriages. Without a mid 20th century perspective, I guess it is hard to realize the former attachment to players. IMO sooooo much is lost by no longer growing up with, or aging with "my' baseball players. Someone posted, concerning Nick, about sentimentality. In my day it was called loyalty, unashamedly so, fans/players.

It was a lot easier to be loyal to your team when you had no choice in the matter. The reserve clause, which was eventually ruled illegal in every sport, produced one-sided loyalty. The team could be done with you at any moment, but you were bound to them from the time you signed as a free agent at 18 years old until they didn't want you any more. There is no change in people's attitude, no to any significant degree. In the beginnings of pro baseball, the 1860s-1880s it was common for players to jump from one team to another chasing more money, even in mid-season. Owners got sick of having to pay market rates for players so they created a closed structure where they had all the power, and were backed by Gilded Age politicians who basically took the tack that ownership can set whatever rules they want. This was decades before even basic labor laws. It's convenient to say society has crumbled and nobody is loyal anymore, but the primary difference is freedom. They have it now, didn't have it before. Maybe we don't like the results of players having freedom and choice, but I'm more inclined to give them more freedom than to advocate for the ridiculous systems prior to free agency.

Oh, and the draft. Prior to 1964 you could at least claim that the players signed with whatever organization they wanted. Now we're expecting loyalty from players to an organization they had absolutely no choice in selecting. Does anyone care, at all, if a Nick Markakis or Brian Roberts or Matt Wieters grew up a die-hard Braves fan and wants to go home? No, we care that he gives his full measure of effort to the Baltimore Orioles until he's done. And then we can release him and mock him for signing with the Yanks.

[DrungoHazewood]

Winner. This is exactly what happened over the past few years. Small market teams now develop and hold their stars until they turn 30...and the big market teams now pay big dollars for their decline. It's getting harder for the Yanks to sign 6 31 year old stars and keep them at peak production level for 7 more years. Look at Tex, we all thought he would be a beast for them...he has been average to slightly above at best.

Even with giant tanks full of horse steroids a 10/250 deal signed on a player's 30th birthday was eventually going to be ugly.

[mcgraw238]

Perhaps it is just the link in this thread, but it appears that the Angelos tweet has been deleted.

[weams]

Perhaps it is just the link in this thread, but it appears that the Angelos tweet has been deleted.

It's fixed now. The link, I don't know if the tweet was deleted.