If, IF, if Ubaldo continues to dominate?

[Nevermore]

You made my point for me - all players should have a good work ethic. That being said, there are higher expectations for players who make a lot of money. That's the way it works so that's "how I came up with this crap."

That doesn't mean that higher-paid players will have a good work ethic. Some of them figure that they're making their millions so they sometimes feel as if they should be treated nicely. And God forbid that management would do something totally humiliating such as pull them out of the rotation. How dare management force them to associate with lowly relief pitchers and demote them into pitching long relief -- insinuating that there is something wrong with their highly compensated technique. There are pitchers who would squawk and scream at such mistreatment, even if their pitching was worse than simply lousy. Yes, they should take their lumps if they deserve it, but some players don't, and in some cases, a team's management would let them get away with it. So it's very refreshing when a highly paid starting pitcher swallows his pride and takes his demotion without a single complaint. It's refreshing when this same pitcher works willingly with his pitching coaches to try and fix the mechanics that have not been working recently. If nothing else, it sets a good example to those young pitchers coming up.

Also, like I said before if [ubaldo]didn't make so much money he probably wouldn't be on the team after last year. The Orioles are giving him another chance despite themselves b/c of their financial commitment to him. Like I said, this is the way it usually work so that's how I "come up with this crap."

No, they're giving him another chance because he showed them that he is willing to work for it. Do you believe that Os management should have released him last August rather than putting him in the pen? That way, I suppose that there would have been roster space to bring up a promising youngster from the minor leagues. But if he had been released, it's quite possible that Ubaldo would have hooked up with another team, that would be paying him the MLB minimum, and then taking his efforts there. And then in a year or two, his efforts would have made him into a quality, experienced pitcher.

Buck is not so stupid and mercenary to keep a pitcher simply because he originally cost the team a lot of money. He wants a winning team. Maybe it was a mistake to put so much money into an inconsistent performer who became consistently bad. But what was done was done. Ubaldo has been willing to take instructions from his pitching coaches. If he had been a lazy prima donna, he would have quickly been outta here. But he's not. Better to work with such a pitcher rather than release him.

So are you suggesting that he doesn't have a diminishing fastball with a high walk rate? You're right, he was one of the best pitchers in baseball for a few months and that got him a nice payday. Jake Arrieta was one of the best pitchers in baseball for stretches of last season so would you feel comfortable with the Orioles giving him a $50 million contract?

Jake Arrieta has been doing just fine, last time I checked. As far as Ubaldo, there have been plenty of pitchers with diminishing fast balls who were able to make adjustments for it and continue to do well. Command/control can be taught if the student is willing to learn. The fact that Ubaldo was one of the best pitchers for a few months, suggests that he could regain some of that skill, with compensations for diminishing velocity. Back in those early days, Ubaldo was able to get away with giving up a lot of walks. But that isn't working any longer, both Ubaldo and team management found out.

If the Orioles had the opportunity to get out of his contract they would do it in a heartbeat. That says it all right there.

There was a time last winter when DD tried to engineer a trade, but as you said, no one wanted to take on that contract.

I don't know who that is. Sorry but I don't agree with the opinion that Ubaldo Jimenez is a good pitcher who deserves to be in the rotation over guys who are more deserving. Like I said before, if the Orioles could get out of his contract they would do it in a heartbeat.

As many have said, "it's only ST." But ST is a good time to evaluate recent developments. Seeing how much he has improved and the efforts he has made in doing so, I'm glad that Ubaldo is still on our team. The latest reports are that he will be the #5 starter, and I'm not sure that this is set in stone. He was quoted as saying that he'll pitch wherever Buck puts him, whether in the rotation or the bullpen.

[scOtt]

Point taken but that isn't the best comparison b/c Ubaldo still has 3 years on his contract and the Orioles didn't have anyone to replace Markakis. In contrast, there are 5 pitchers on the staff that are more deserving to be in the rotation.

Gausman and Norris have both been mediocre at best this Spring. UJ started pretty bad and has made substantial progress EVERY outing. Those two are in the race for 5th starter, not Ubaldo. He's earned a spot.

[scOtt]

If the Orioles could have gotten out of Brian Robert's contract they would have. Who made you the determiner of deserving?

I think the term is decider...

[Nevermore]

Gausman and Norris have both been mediocre at best this Spring. UJ started pretty bad and has made substantial progress EVERY outing. Those two are in the race for 5th starter, not Ubaldo. He's earned a spot.

Joe Angel said (I think that it was in one of the pre-game shows) that Ubaldo will be the #5 starter. He didn't mention who would be the odd man out. Though I get the idea that Norris will be #4.

[backwardsk]

Joe Angel said (I think that it was in one of the pre-game shows) that Ubaldo will be the #5 starter. He didn't mention who would be the odd man out. Though I get the idea that Norris will be #4.

And Thorne said he would be skipped the first time through. So it looks like he'll pitch on Tuesday 4/14 against NYY.

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[Frobby]

Gausman and Norris have both been mediocre at best this Spring. UJ started pretty bad and has made substantial progress EVERY outing. Those two are in the race for 5th starter, not Ubaldo. He's earned a spot.

When you are deciding who gets to start, there are a lot of factors: performance last year, longer term track record, performance this spring, and long-term investment. They all factor into the equation. Herman's problem is that he's overly focused on Ubaldo's performance last year, as though that was the only year in which he ever pitched and as though his performance this spring was irrelevant. Ubaldo clearly has not looked the worst of our six starters this spring, and he clearly has a better long term track record than several of his competitors. I trust Buck 100% to weigh all those factors and make good decisions.

[mdbdotcom]

And Thorne said he would be skipped the first time through. So it looks like he'll pitch on Tuesday 4/14 against NYY.

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But first he'll pitch 6 innings of shutout ball against the Blue Jays in relief of Bud Norris.

[birrman54]

Reminds me last year lots of people wanted to cut Bud Norris because of his 4.8 ERA with us in 2013. Sometimes you need to give players an opportunity to prove they're better than they were.

[Can_of_corn]

Reminds me last year lots of people wanted to cut Bud Norris because of his 4.8 ERA with us in 2013. Sometimes you need to give players an opportunity to prove they're better than they were.

Please find me anyone wanting to cut Norris last season. Trade him, send him to the bullpen maybe but cut him?

As a bonus, when you do find someone make sure that his ERA is the reason, not something fancy like his FIP or ERA+ or WHIP.

[Redskins Rick]

Please find me anyone wanting to cut Norris last season. Trade him, send him to the bullpen maybe but cut him?

As a bonus, when you do find someone make sure that his ERA is the reason, not something fancy like his FIP or ERA+ or WHIP.

There was quite a bit of anti-Bud posters here, before the season started.

Not sure if they actually wanted him DFA, but they sure didn't want him on the team.

[weams]

Please find me anyone wanting to cut Norris last season. Trade him, send him to the bullpen maybe but cut him?

As a bonus, when you do find someone make sure that his ERA is the reason, not something fancy like his FIP or ERA+ or WHIP.

Cut is a football term used instead of "get rid of." He/she was only making the point that Bud had been unloved.

[Can_of_corn]

There was quite a bit of anti-Bud posters here, before the season started.

Not sure if they actually wanted him DFA, but they sure didn't want him on the team.

I know, I was one of them.

Folks didn't want to cut him, they wanted him traded or in the pen.

Huge difference.

[Can_of_corn]

Cut is a football term used instead of "get rid of." He/she was only making the point that Bud had been unloved.

Or, they were just being hyperbolic.

Or, they were just factually incorrect.

[Nevermore]

There was quite a bit of anti-Bud posters here, before the season started.

Not sure if they actually wanted him DFA, but they sure didn't want him on the team.

I know that I was not an anti-Bud poster. I was more than happy to have him on the team. I still am. There is no reason to believe that Bud won't be decent this year. Okay, he was pretty bad during ST. If for some reason, there is something basically wrong with his mechanics, and he continues losing into the regular season, then perhaps spending some time in the pen, with Wallace's and Chiti's expert coaching will help him out.

The problem with this whole 6-starters-and-only-5-spots situation is that someone has to be the odd man out and take a turn in the pen or at Norfolk.

[weams]

The problem with this whole 6-starters-and-only-5-spots situation is that someone has to be the odd man out and take a turn in the pen or at Norfolk.

Only Miguel, Kevin and Wei-Yin can go to Norfolk. Well others can go there. But only they can be assigned there.