The This Team IS Done, We are Dumb and Nothing can Fix it MEGA THREAD

[islandecho]

I think we have an identity problem. We have used so many players the last few seasons and yet several or the regulars are pending FAs. After a while you have to wonder about the effects of constant change and the lack of cohesion. Does the defense suffer? How about the lineup? I've been forced into the Seinfeld model of rooting for laundry because I don't know who is going to be here long term. It's a strange place to be as a baseball fan. I expect it in football and hockey but not my Orioles.

AJ is here for a while. Schoop should be, but he's out now. Manny should be, but you can see contract issues coming. We hope Gausman and Bundy are future aces but neither are even in the rotation right now. JJ has two more years after this one but I believe, much as like him, that was a bad signing and he'll spend significant time on the DL during this contract. Is Joseph the long term answer? He's had a nice start. There are some interesting arms coming but nothing I'm really excited about outside of Harvey and he's injured, too. I don't feel great about our position prospects. Here's hoping Walker, Alvarez, and others start looking like good MLB players soon.

Who else is part of a good future here? I hope we use FA heavily and wisely but that's not been the MO. Maybe we extend Tillman and we can hope Ubaldo gives us 80 more good starts... and that's about it. Some of the guys that will be here next year are role players like Flaherty, Snider, McFarland and Lough. Wieters is gone. Davis is gone. Likely, too, are Pearce, De Aza, Young, Chen, Norris, Hunter, Wright, O'Day and Matusz, at least. Sure, maybe one or two of the lesser players in that list stays but DD has done very little in the way of long term (3+ year) deals. Also true that I don't want some of those players back but who are the Orioles now and going forward?

I just don't understand what the team image is. What is the plan for the future? How do we stay competitive? Who is going to be here long term and when do those contracts get signed? Why are we looking at so many expiring FAs? I would have signed Cruz. I never thought we'd get 3 or 4 comp picks next year. I'm somewhat down on the farm system. I don't like how we're playing. I don't like how this team was/is constructed. It's tough for me as a fan right now and I wonder if the players have some of the same issues.

Very very good points and I think that the way you said it went into much more specifics about why this team seems to have lost their swagger. IF the FO is not going to sign, or at least TRY to sign, stars like Miller and Cruz, and other players see this, KNOWING that next year they are about to lose a bunch more players next year, imo they really lose a lot of incentive and that extra edge you need to be a very good to great team. I think that is part of the reason why the other teams in the AL east last year faded so badly at the end of the year. They KNEW in their hearts they were not going to catch the O's, so even while they still competed and tried, that extra effort and concentration people need to perform at their best was gone. And hence the Os ran away with it.

Kind of like when a team is up 3-1 in the NBA playoffs. More times than not the team down 3 games will win that game 5. Simply because they know it's do or die for them. Meanwhile the team up 3-1 knows they have 3 games to win it, and their concentration and focus is not always there for that game 5. We saw that last night with Houston for example.

[OFFNY]

o

You know, you don't actually need to bump either thread ...

Yeah, I understand that, Paul.

Since you're being so serious and so literal, I don't NEED to post and/or bump any threads at the Orioles Hangout at all.

But if it's OK with you, I'd like to keep posting as I see fit without having to literally spell out each and every one of my posts to a tee.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Wow. I thought we were just playing poorly. Sounds like Dan can fix this with a bouquet of flowers.

[bobmc]

o

Yeah, I understand that, Paul.

Since you're being so serious and so literal, I don't NEED to post and/or bump any threads at the Orioles Hangout at all.

But if it's OK with you, I'd like to keep posting as I see fit without having to literally spell out each and every one of my posts to a tee.

weams will chastise both of y'all for personal convos....

[bobmc]

Wow. I thought we were just playing poorly. Sounds like Dan can fix this with a bouquet of flowers.

When CA-ORIOLE starts worrying, then I worry - until then....:beerchug1: :2yay-thumb:

[MemorialStadKid]

So you give up on the team and only support them, when they win?

What did you do for that long 14 year span of dismal play?

I have been supporting the Orioles since the early 1980s. Going to games during the best and worst of times.

I went to as many games during the dark years as now.

When we turned the corner in 2012, I expected the FO to do whatever it took to keep us in contention. That did not occur this offseason.

It's tough to shell out hundreds or thousands of dollars per season to travel cross-country to OPACY from LA when the ownership doesn't really care to improve the squad.

MSK

[DrungoHazewood]

I know many of you will laugh at this, and that is fine, but you would be surprised how much the psyche and state of mind of an athlete can have on performance. I hate to beat Miller and Cruz into the ground, but I truly feel when the team lost those two, and two a lesser extent Markakis, (and replaced them with no one) the team felt as if the front office gave up on the season. As a result, I really feel as if the team kind of gave up themselves and have lost a lot of focus. Plus the swagger in them seems to be gone. Even two years ago, you could tell by listening to them and how they acted on the field, that they truly felt as if they were one of the best teams in the league. The two years they have made the playoffs they had even more bravado. This year? I don't sense any of that. They just kind of seem to be going through the motions....knowing that the FO did them no favors and that next year a ton more players are leaving. They almost seem resigned to the fact that the FO will never give them enough pieces to truly make a run at a championship.

Yes, many of us will laugh at this. Swagger follows winning, it's a result of winning, it's not the reason you win. There's all this hand-wringing and weeping over the loss of Markakis, Cruz, and Miller, but if Tillman and Norris had 3.30 ERAs no one would care at all about Cruz' swagger. Seven starts from those two guys where they allowed four or more runs. Turn most of those into wins and there isn't a problem.

[DrungoHazewood]

When we turned the corner in 2012, I expected the FO to do whatever it took to keep us in contention. That did not occur this offseason.

It's tough to shell out hundreds or thousands of dollars per season to travel cross-country to OPACY from LA when the ownership doesn't really care to improve the squad.

That's the root of the problem: that you believe the management of the team doesn't care about winning baseball games. It's not that they have a different philosophy and a better understanding of their budgets and constraints - it's that you believe they'd rather lose. You actually think they're perfectly fine with losing. I don't think you can bridge that gap - there really is no discussion here. This is a sky is green argument.

[MemorialStadKid]

I know many of you will laugh at this, and that is fine, but you would be surprised how much the psyche and state of mind of an athlete can have on performance. I hate to beat Miller and Cruz into the ground, but I truly feel when the team lost those two, and two a lesser extent Markakis, (and replaced them with no one) the team felt as if the front office gave up on the season. As a result, I really feel as if the team kind of gave up themselves and have lost a lot of focus. Plus the swagger in them seems to be gone. Even two years ago, you could tell by listening to them and how they acted on the field, that they truly felt as if they were one of the best teams in the league. The two years they have made the playoffs they had even more bravado. This year? I don't sense any of that. They just kind of seem to be going through the motions....knowing that the FO did them no favors and that next year a ton more players are leaving. They almost seem resigned to the fact that the FO will never give them enough pieces to truly make a run at a championship.

Many here don't believe in anything you cannot quantify with stats.

The "intangible/hunch vs. stats" discussion is one that usually ends poorly.

I definitely believe there's been a morale hit after the abysmal offseason. The team just seems lost. The results speak for themselves. But of course, someone will laugh at the idea that mental state can affect performance.

These are the same folks who believe DD did everything he could to improve the Orioles this offseason.

sigh.

MSK

[MemorialStadKid]

That's the root of the problem: that you believe the management of the team doesn't care about winning baseball games. It's not that they have a different philosophy and a better understanding of their budgets and constraints - it's that you believe they'd rather lose. You actually think they're perfectly fine with losing. I don't think you can bridge that gap - there really is no discussion here. This is a sky is green argument.

That's not what I believe.

Can you honestly say the squad on the field is the best team DD could have put together for 2015?

Seriously?

MSK

[DrungoHazewood]

That's not what I believe.

That's interesting, since you consistently say that they just don't care about fielding the best team they can.

Can you honestly say the squad on the field is the best team DD could have put together for 2015?

Seriously?

I believe that Duquette put the best team on the field he could given the constraints of the budget he was given and the players available this offseason. Do you honestly think that Duquette just screwed around and signed a random bunch of guys to fill out the roster?

[Malike]

That's interesting, since you consistently say that they just don't care about fielding the best team they can.

I believe that Duquette put the best team on the field he could given the constraints of the budget he was given and the players available this offseason. Do you honestly think that Duquette just screwed around and signed a random bunch of guys to fill out the roster?

Come on now. We all know he was too busy packing his bags and looking for a mansion in Toronto this past off-season. Orioles be damned.

[MemorialStadKid]

That's interesting, since you consistently say that they just don't care about fielding the best team they can.

I believe that Duquette put the best team on the field he could given the constraints of the budget he was given and the players available this offseason. Do you honestly think that Duquette just screwed around and signed a random bunch of guys to fill out the roster?

I believe that DD was distracted by the prospect of going to Toronto to a much better job and therefore did not put an emphasis on replacing the offense and pitching lost by the departures of Cruz and Miller. He picked up scraps (which was the old status quo) and hoped for the best.

They said the return of Davis, Machado, Wieters (which hasn't happened yet) would somehow make up for the loss of Cruz and Markakis. That also has not happened.

I just get infuriated when folks just pretend like nothing is wrong. That's my issue. There's a lot wrong with the 2015 Orioles. All the stats and "hoping for the best" cannot make a single difference in the world.

MSK

[DrungoHazewood]

Come on now. We all know he was too busy packing his bags and looking for a mansion in Toronto this past off-season. Orioles be damned.

Yea, but sometimes he'd put the real estate guy on hold to go laugh at trade offers for Kemp.

[islandecho]

I have been supporting the Orioles since the early 1980s. Going to games during the best and worst of times.

I went to as many games during the dark years as now.

When we turned the corner in 2012, I expected the FO to do whatever it took to keep us in contention. That did not occur this offseason.

It's tough to shell out hundreds or thousands of dollars per season to travel cross-country to OPACY from LA when the ownership doesn't really care to improve the squad.

MSK

You're in LA too? So am I. Where abouts are you? I just moved from Pasadena to Valencia. If you are interested in getting together to go to a game this weekend let me know.

My wife would probably go too....but don't worry she is a hot Asian woman haha.