Drum beat a little louder for Cubs deal

[ugadawg38]

This is your problem...That deal isn't overpaying for BRob at all.

Almost every player in this deal is excess for the Cubs...They lose some depth but so what...They will be able to trade our of a pool of guys that become available from the 2007 draft plus anything else they have.

And really, no one knows what direction Pie is going to go in, so he may be a chip as well.

Come on now....No one knows what direction jay Bruce is going to go in should he be a chip too? BTW I am not trying to disparage you I think you are one of the more reasonable posters on this trade from the Orioles side.

[WebLink21]

This type of thinking is why we havent won a world series in a 100 years..We have a rotation that will probably need to be upgraded and a potential hole at SS. We dont have a hole at 2B. That being said get it done by Wednesday or not at all. But absolutely no Ceda, or Colvin. (Pie would never be in it unless this the WWE and Jim Hendry rips off his suit to reveal a happy looking O bird. I think i would actually kill him)

I would much rather save our chips towards the deadline and I think we are selling way too low on Veal.

WebLink where have you seen Smoak play?

I actually got really into the draft the last few years with us picking so highly. I have always loved the NFL draft, but with so many players to watch in the MLB draft it was always hard for me to follow. Last year I started following alot of the players I heard mentioned for us and I really got into it. This year I got an early jump and ordered a package where I could watch Smoak and Alvarez play. The first game I saw of them both I came on here and said that I though Smoak looked better. Then Alvarez got hurt so I just watched Smoak's games. He has been just as impressive all year. Love the kid’s game. He reminds me alot of Texeria when he was at GT, but is an even better fielder. I am not saying that he will be as good as Texiera, but I think he will be a very good pro.

Love the WWE reference by the way.

[fire83]

This is your problem...That deal isn't overpaying for BRob at all.

Almost every player in this deal is excess for the Cubs...They lose some depth but so what...They will be able to trade our of a pool of guys that become available from the 2007 draft plus anything else they have.

And really, no one knows what direction Pie is going to go in, so he may be a chip as well.

I am not being disrespectful and would rather you didn't either. I do not have a problem. I have an opinion. IMO giving up 2 pitching prospects in the Cubs top 5, a very good young hitter in Murton and a SS who has a pretty decent upside and is young, is overpayign a little. I would make that deal, but if that doesn't do it, I am okay with letting Roberts go.

[Mackus]

When did Murton come back into the picture?

[Sports Guy]

Come on now....No one knows what direction jay Bruce is going to go in should he be a chip too? BTW I am not trying to disparage you I think you are one of the more reasonable posters on this trade from the Orioles side.

The Reds aren't going to be competing for a title...They haven't gone 100 years without winning one.

There are already whispers about Pie and the Cubs souring on him...We already know he won't face lefties and I don't think Lou is going to wait it out with him for the long haul of the season.

By July, he could very easily be back in Iowa and be part of a trade for a pitcher.

My point is that just because 4 guys are traded for BRob, doesn't mean the Cubs won't be able to complete a trade for a guy like Burnett later on.

[FO2020]

It's going to be pretty funny when the deal comes down and all of a sudden Cub fans go from thinking BRob is a marginal upgrade to thinking he's the missing piece and gaurantees them a World Series birth.

And O's fans go from thinking all the prospects they got are extra pieces to thinking they have come away with the next Cal and [insert prospect name here] is going to be a hall of fame pitcher and mulitple Cy Young award winner in a few years.

[clapdiddy]

So...not to beat the dead horse, but I'm beginning to think this is why Roberts was not playing today.

[Sports Guy]

I am not being disrespectful and would rather you didn't either. I do not have a problem. I have an opinion. IMO giving up 2 pitching prospects in the Cubs top 5, a very good young hitter in Murton and a SS who has a pretty decent upside and is young, is overpayign a little. I would make that deal, but if that doesn't do it, I am okay with letting Roberts go.

I didn't mean that in a disrespectful way...Of course, you can't know that so my bad for making it sound that way.

And that's fine if that's your opinion but I just don't see it as overpaying because, IMO, by the deadline, Cedeno and Murton are going to have very little trade value for the Cubs because they will be stuck on the bench or in AAA or something like that.

[fire83]

When did Murton come back into the picture?

There is not a report saying he is. My point was since the Cubs now have Reed Johnso they can move Murton. Maybe he can be the 4th guy. The O's want a top prospect, the Cubs want to give up a lesser prospect. Maybe Murton is a guy both can agree on.

[ugadawg38]

The Reds aren't going to be competing for a title...They haven't gone 100 years without winning one.

There are already whispers about Pie and the Cubs souring on him...We already know he won't face lefties and I don't think Lou is going to wait it out with him for the long haul of the season.

By July, he could very easily be back in Iowa and be part of a trade for a pitcher.

My point is that just because 4 guys are traded for BRob, doesn't mean the Cubs won't be able to complete a trade for a guy like Burnett later on.

Ill-fated deals where we overpay is why we havent won a world series since Teddy Roosevelt

I really think this thought about the Cubs souring on Pie is absurd. Pinella is going to hit him against righties and certain lefties. Johnson was brought in for tough lefties and to back Pie up NOT to platoon.

I think if we trade our three best pitchers in the system now it would be impossible to land a Blanton or a Burnett at the deadline. Hell maybe even a Bedard if the Mariners are atrocious.

I would only deal Pie in a deal for a mega player. I just dont think B-Rob is a mega player. But I think he is a good to great player.

WebLink great analysis. I really like you opinion. + reps to you and sports guy for good debates.

[fire83]

I didn't mean that in a disrespectful way...Of course, you can't know that so my bad for making it sound that way.

And that's fine if that's your opinion but I just don't see it as overpaying because, IMO, by the deadline, Cedeno and Murton are going to have very little trade value for the Cubs because they will be stuck on the bench or in AAA or something like that.

I really doubt Murton will be on the Cubs. But if he is I agree their value will be down. However, if they are on the O's, I honestly believe you will be very happy with Murton. As for Cedeno, he is a wild card. If he figures out the majors he can be a .280+ hitter with 15 to 20 homers as a SS. He does play good defense as well. Plus the O's would be getting two guys with solid upsides. Again, it is just my opinion and even though I believe it is overpaying, I would make that deal. But I would not give more. There does come a point where you do not give up too much just to get a guy you want, even if you know the guy will help you

[Sports Guy]

However, if they are on the O's, I honestly believe you will be very happy with Murton.

Oh, I 100% agree with this...I would like Murton to be in the deal...But that still doesn't change the fact that his value isn't high and it is likely going to go down from where it is now over the next few months.

[umfan83]

Why should we show tolerance and respect to those who don't return the favor?

BTW, funny how you talk about tolerance and respect and call another teams' fans idiots.

Obviously, that was satire calling out Cardinals fans as idiots. They are our rivals..

If you understood my prior post, I clearly pointed out that there are respectful fans and trolls, and I was asking you to clarify if you had a desire to kick all Cubs fans out or just the bad eggs.

[Junny]

I don't know if this is posted and apologize if it has, but someone on the cubs.com message board said Bruce Levine just said the cubs and o's deal is not dead and that the teams are still talking. This would make sense to me now that the cubs have Reed Johnson. Not because they would be willing to include pie, but because they now have 1 to 2 additional people to trade as hendry was going to have to give up murton and another prospect for byrd and probably something similar for crisp. Maybe it will be a 5 for 1 now with the o's getting murton on top of the other offer.

[Number5]

This is your problem...That deal isn't overpaying for BRob at all.

Almost every player in this deal is excess for the Cubs...They lose some depth but so what...They will be able to trade our of a pool of guys that become available from the 2007 draft plus anything else they have.

And really, no one knows what direction Pie is going to go in, so he may be a chip as well.

What depth are they losing? They are trading no starting players. DeRosa becomes a super sub. They would still have Ward, Johnson and Blanco. The other reserve would be Patterson or Murton if the deal is Cedeno, Gallagher, Veal, and Ceda/Colvin. If Patterson or Murton is in the deal, the other one is the fifth man on the bench. Fontenot would still be AAA depth. If anything, the deal gives the Cubs one of the best benches in baseball.

Maybe the compromise might be Murton and Patterson instead of Ceda/Colvin. That would be a 5 for 1, which I certainly don't expect, but with the Johnson acquisition and moving DeRosa to the bench, the Cubs could afford to do it. One of Patterson and Murton would definitely be unable to be on the team in any case, with DeRosa, Blanco, Ward, and Johnson already occupying the other four reserve spots. Fontenot could be the fifth reserve if both Murton and Patterson are traded.

Getting 5 back would explain the dropping of Leicester from the 40 man roster today, as well.