TT: The most productive Oriole in their history could surprise you!

[Fuzzball22]

It's fun to look at Rochester from this era for another angle on how amazing our talent was in those days.

At age 20, he destroys AAA in half a season to the tune of 383/503/570. He does get some 1970 callup and has Troutian scuffle.

So what happens next year? Davey Johnson's still around, so Grich repeats AAA.

One of the soft arguments in Edgar Martinez's HOF case is the Mariners kept him down too long - Grich advocates can say the same thing.

I was looking at Rochester the other day and noticed Don Baylor's stats for 1970. In 70 Baylor scored 127 runs, had 34 2b, 15 3b, 22 HR, 107 rbi, 26 SB and an OPS of 1.011. And what was his reward for that season at age 21? Another full season at Rochester with an OPS of .961. Could you imagine what Scott Boras would say if Baylor was his client.

[Larry18]

I would take Frank over Grich as the most productive Oriole in history regardless of the stats.

I think Grich provided more value,Frank more production. But that's just me nit-picking over semantics.

[mdbdotcom]

I think Grich provided more value,Frank more production. But that's just me nit-picking over semantics.

I really enjoyed watching Bobby Grich play, but you can keep his value and give me Frank Robinson leading the O's to the World Series in four out of six years anytime.

[Frobby]

I really enjoyed watching Bobby Grich play, but you can keep his value and give me Frank Robinson leading the O's to the World Series in four out of six years anytime.

Obviously, there is no bigger fan of Frank Robinson than me. But you have to be careful about assigning him too much of the credit for the fantastic TEAMS that he played on.

[tntoriole]

I really enjoyed watching Bobby Grich play, but you can keep his value and give me Frank Robinson leading the O's to the World Series in four out of six years anytime.

Different supporting casts and Grich was a very different player than Frank. But the teams that Grich was a key contributor to in 1973 and 1974 were very good. They won 97 games and the AL East title in 1973 and 91 games and the AL East title in 1974 and lost in two hard fought playoff series to the dynasty of the Oakland As. Grich was an 8.3 WAR on the 1973 team which was one of my favorite teams- Baylor and Grich were fierce, fierce competitors. Palmer had one of his absolute best seasons winning 22 with 19 complete games. Al Bumbry and Richie Coggins were dynamite with .898 and .831 OPS and adding 40 stolen bases. One of my favorite Orioles teams...I was at the game 1 of the ALCS- Palmer absolutely dominated with a complete game shutout and we knocked out Vida Blue in the first inning with four runs and won 6-0. With the Orioles down 2 games to 1 in Oakland and down 4-0, they tied it in the 7th after Andy Etchebarren hit a 3 run HR off a seemingly unbeatable Blue and then Grich won the game in the 8th with a homer off Rollie Fingers- I can remember exactly where I was.. running around the house!! Unfortunately, Catfish Hunter shut us out in Game 5. But a great season that year at Memorial Stadium watching that team play!!

[mdbdotcom]

Obviously, there is no bigger fan of Frank Robinson than me. But you have to be careful about assigning him too much of the credit for the fantastic TEAMS that he played on.

That is obvious as well.

[DrungoHazewood]

I was looking at Rochester the other day and noticed Don Baylor's stats for 1970. In 70 Baylor scored 127 runs, had 34 2b, 15 3b, 22 HR, 107 rbi, 26 SB and an OPS of 1.011. And what was his reward for that season at age 21? Another full season at Rochester with an OPS of .961. Could you imagine what Scott Boras would say if Baylor was his client.

You could argue that this was a unique situation, but also that the Orioles weren't using their resources in an optimal way. They used up what was a productive year of a very good MLB player's career by having him repeat AAA.

But what other team in recent MLB history had a rotation of four 20-game winners and a starting lineup where the worst hitter had a 97 OPS+, and their 4th outfielder in a non-DH league had an .870 OPS in almost 600 PAs? The 1971 Orioles didn't have a hole. They just didn't. I suppose they could have traded Baylor for, umm... something, but I don't know if that would have done anything positive for them.

It would have been hard for Baylor to complain too much when the team you're trying to get promoted to had four outfielders worth at least 2.9 rWAR. Four! In a non-DH league!

[DrungoHazewood]

I thought maybe the 1971 Orioles were unique in their four outfielders with 2.9 rWAR or more, so did some searching. I was a little surprised.

The Orioles do hold the record for most OFers on one team with 2.5 or more rWAR. But it was the 1973 Orioles, not the 1971 team. With five, not four. Baylor, Blair, Bumbry, Coggins, and Rettenmund. Those five were worth more (20-and-change rWAR) than the top four or five of the 1971 O's (17-and-change). Every member of that '73 outfield was worth at least 3.3 rWAR. That's amazing. Five outfielders, one team, one year, worth more than 2015 Adam Jones. (!)

So you ditch an inner-circle HOFer in Frank and actually have a more productive outfield. (Ducks shoe thrown by Frobby).

[Frobby]

Obviously, there is no bigger fan of Frank Robinson than me. But you have to be careful about assigning him too much of the credit for the fantastic TEAMS that he played on.

For the 1969-71 Orioles who went to the World Series three straight times:

Blair 15.8 rWAR

F. Robby 15.6

Powell 14.6

Buford 14.4

Brooks 14.0

Johnson 11.6

Belanger 10.8

Those are incredible totals for 7 guys on one team over a three year stretch -- and I didn't even mention the pitchers!

[wildcard]

Obviously, there is no bigger fan of Frank Robinson than me. But you have to be careful about assigning him too much of the credit for the fantastic TEAMS that he played on.

Odd to hear from his biggest fan. I don't agree. This franchise marks its history by what happen before Frank came, while he was here and after he left. He led. He made all the other players better. He was the MVP of the league. I don't know how I could overstate what Frank meant and means to the O's.

There have been other great players that have played for the O's. But no one. Not even Brooks or Cal has had the impact he had. If you ask any of his O's teammates who was the different maker of those teams they will all say Frank.

[srock]

What is the accuracy on dWAR in the 70's? They didn't exactly track defense like today.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Il BuonO]

For the 1969-71 Orioles who went to the World Series three straight times:

Blair 15.8 rWAR

F. Robby 15.6

Powell 14.6

Buford 14.4

Brooks 14.0

Johnson 11.6

Belanger 10.8

Those are incredible totals for 7 guys on one team over a three year stretch -- and I didn't even mention the pitchers!

I think many people would be surprised to see PB at the top of that list. He was an incredible defender.

[Tony-OH]

I thought maybe the 1971 Orioles were unique in their four outfielders with 2.9 rWAR or more, so did some searching. I was a little surprised.

The Orioles do hold the record for most OFers on one team with 2.5 or more rWAR. But it was the 1973 Orioles, not the 1971 team. With five, not four. Baylor, Blair, Bumbry, Coggins, and Rettenmund. Those five were worth more (20-and-change rWAR) than the top four or five of the 1971 O's (17-and-change). Every member of that '73 outfield was worth at least 3.3 rWAR. That's amazing. Five outfielders, one team, one year, worth more than 2015 Adam Jones. (!)

So you ditch an inner-circle HOFer in Frank and actually have a more productive outfield. (Ducks shoe thrown by Frobby).

That truly is remarkable. I know we were alive during this time, but neither us I'm sure have any recollection of those teams. I wish there was some secret stash of recorded games from the season that we could watch. That would be amazing.

[Tony-OH]

Grich put up some numbers at Rochester where he was a disappointment offensively. He choked up quite a bit early in his career. One of the only 2B to make the do pivot giving no ground.

Weaver caused some controversy by selecting the rookie to the 1972 all-star roster IIRC.

Grich slashed .352./461 /.612/1.073 in 193 AAA games so unless you a talking about some cold streak during those season that can't be found, I'm not sure when he was disappointing in Rochester offensively. As for choking early in his career, he slashed .275/.352/.477/.829 in high leverage situations in 1972, his first full season. He did struggle the year after in HLS slashing .183/.329/.278/.607 in 1973, but in 1974 he was back to .221/.354/.389/.744 and in 1975 at .291/.423/.436/.859.

Now he did struggle in the ALCS in 1973, so maybe that's what you mean. He certainly came up small slashing .100/.182/.250/.432 in the three games to two loss to the A's that year. Of course he did hit the go ahead homer in the top of the 8th inning to give the Orioles a 5-4 win and force a game 5 in that series.

[Just Regular]

I know Brooks and Manny have spent a little time together - it would be cool if Grich and Schoop did too. Imagine the Frankenstein monster if Schoop could learn even a fraction of Grich's plate discipline.

Though with the plate discipline progress Manny himself made last year, he might more realistically provide that influence too.