Quietly, BRob is putting up impressive numbers

[Mark J]

Sorry, but the only platoon they do is putting Gomez in against LHP's. Patterson & Roberts never sit vs. LHP's although they have a history of poor hitting against them. Patterson has been a little better this year but he's still weak, and Roberts is just plain terrible batting RH. They use Millar against LHP when he is actually better against RHP. His split trends continue this year as he's been pitiful vs. LHP. Platooning would be putting Payton in CF vs. LHP, with a RHB (Knott) in LF and a RHB platoon for 1B or DH (Millar doesn't fit), and Gomez at 2B. This team was poorly constructed, and poorly used, no matter what their record is vs. LHP's so far.

No need to be sorry. You just basically said the same thing I did but went into further detail. You agree with me but didn't even realize it.

[Sports Guy]

I think that's a pretty fair assessment. For 2008 they can count on 2/5ths of a starting rotation, and potentially have big holes in LF, CF, 1B, DH, and it wouldn't be surprising to see moderate declines at 3B, SS, 2B, and catcher.

Totally agree.... Now, the flip side with those declines is that the young pitching and Markakis should be better but at this point, how much of that young pitching can we rely on to be healthy?

[Mark J]

Totally agree.... Now, the flip side with those declines is that the young pitching and Markakis should be better but at this point, how much of that young pitching can we rely on to be healthy?[/QUOTE]

That's true - but you could say that for a lot of other teams too.

Just as easily (OK, maybe not JUST as easily) as we could have potential holes, we could have potential decent replacements & good pitching health.

Olson will be a year older, Loewen may be back and healthy, we may get a solid 3-5 free agent innings eater starter & we could get a free agent center fielder.

[Sports Guy]

Totally agree.... Now, the flip side with those declines is that the young pitching and Markakis should be better but at this point, how much of that young pitching can we rely on to be healthy?[/QUOTE]

That's true - but you could say that for a lot of other teams too.

Just as easily (OK, maybe not JUST as easily) as we could have potential holes, we could have potential decent replacements & good pitching health.

Olson will be a year older, Loewen may be back and healthy, we may get a solid 3-5 free agent innings eater starter & we could get a free agent center fielder.

...and still not be able to contend, in all likelihood.

[Mashed Potatoes]

Justin Morneau won the MVP award (wrong choice by the voters, but he did) and was between eight and nine wins over replacement. Two Justin Morneaus would maybe make this team 10 wins better, figuring that the guys he's replacing are probably worth three wins each.

Ten wins means this is maybe an 87-win team, if all the 30+ year olds don't regress and the pitchers get healthy.

I think this team is more like four impact players from serious contention. Four guys who are at least 6-7 win players.

The only way two players get you there is if they start doing some creative things like platooning that they've shown zero inclination to do up to now....

I think that's a pretty fair assessment. For 2008 they can count on 2/5ths of a starting rotation, and potentially have big holes in LF, CF, 1B, DH, and it wouldn't be surprising to see moderate declines at 3B, SS, 2B, and catcher.

How can anyone read this stuff and continue to advocate the stepping stone approach? It's just willful ignorance. Frobby, you're too smart to believe that we're close to competing with the MFYs and Red Sox.

[Sports Guy]

How can anyone read this stuff and continue to advocate the stepping stone approach? It's just willful ignorance. Frobby, you're too smart to believe that we're close to competing with the MFYs and Red Sox.

It is called hope and a belief that that these players will perform above what they can.

[Mark J]

...and still not be able to contend, in all likelihood.

True. I do expect something to be done in the offseason by the front office. There seems to be the desire & money (from MASN) to continue improving & this past offseason showed some evidence that we were actually doing soemthing, so I hoping to be surprised by some level of improvements through free-agency or trades. And Reimold will be a year closer to the majors, hopefully Markakis takes his game to another level. I ain't holding my breath for all this, but I hope they can make the right things happen to get us a lot closer.

[Mark J]

How can anyone read this stuff and continue to advocate the stepping stone approach? It's just willful ignorance. Frobby, you're too smart to believe that we're close to competing with the MFYs and Red Sox.

While I wouldn't mind us blowing the team up, it's not out of the realm of possibility that we could be a decent team next year. We've had a ton of close games this year that we were within a run or two of winning that could make our record better. Say one or both of Millar &/or Gibbons is gone & replaced by at least House/Knott/Dubois/Reimold or some other competent player and Bynum is gone & replaced by a viable bench player / pinch hitter. We could be in a lot different (better) situation that we are now.

[Sports Guy]

While I wouldn't mind us blowing the team up, it's not out of the realm of possibility that we could be a decent team next year. We've had a ton of close games this year that we were within a run or two of winning that could make our record better. Say one or both of Millar &/or Gibbons is gone & replaced by at least House/Knott/Dubois/Reimold or some other competent player and Bynum is gone & replaced by a viable bench player / pinch hitter. We could be in a lot different (better) situation that we are now.

Yes because a "decent team" means a whole hell of a lot in a very competitive AL!

I swear i think people on here think 85 wins means we are contending.

[Mashed Potatoes]

It is called hope and a belief that that these players will perform above what they can.

I used to share that hope, but 9 years of cold reality has beaten my hope into submission. Doesn't everyone realize that if they looked at their preseason posts they would see the exact same story and excuses for the past as the year before? It's like our memories are erased every offseason and we start over. What more is it going to take? Finishing 5th instead of 4th?

While I wouldn't mind us blowing the team up, it's not out of the realm of possibility that we could be a decent team next year. We've had a ton of close games this year that we were within a run or two of winning that could make our record better. Say one or both of Millar &/or Gibbons is gone & replaced by at least House/Knott/Dubois/Reimold or some other competent player and Bynum is gone & replaced by a viable bench player / pinch hitter. We could be in a lot different (better) situation that we are now.

Isn't it sad that our expectations have been reduced to the possibility of being decent?

[Mark J]

Yes because a "decent team" means a whole hell of a lot in a very competitive AL!

I swear i think people on here think 85 wins means we are contending.

Heard of the Wild Card? All my possibilities of replacements were more or less worst case improvements. If we get a few better guys too, maybe 85 wins becomes 90. And / or maybe a mid-season trade gets us a player for the stretch drive.

I'm not trying to make it sound like we're great or anything, but I'm just saying we're not as horrible as a lot of people think.

[Sports Guy]

Heard of the Wild Card? All my possibilities of replacements were more or less worst case improvements. If we get a few better guys too, maybe 85 wins becomes 90. And / or maybe a mid-season trade gets us a player for the stretch drive.

I'm not trying to make it sound like we're great or anything, but I'm just saying we're not as horrible as a lot of people think.

There are 8 legit teams in the AL....8 teams that i think are all capable of 90+ wins. Now, they won't all win that many but they are all that good.

And that doesn't include Toronto.

The Orioles need to be winning more like 93-98 games to get into the playoffs.

[Mashed Potatoes]

Heard of the Wild Card? All my possibilities of replacements were more or less worst case improvements. If we get a few better guys too, maybe 85 wins becomes 90. And / or maybe a mid-season trade gets us a player for the stretch drive.

I'm not trying to make it sound like we're great or anything, but I'm just saying we're not as horrible as a lot of people think.

Heard of the White Sox, Angels, A's, Blue Jays, Twins, Tigers, Indians, Yankees/Red Sox (whoever's not winning the division)?

Is there a scenario where we can make the playoffs? Sure!

1. Our pitching stays healthy. Bedard is an ace. Cabrera takes the next step. Loewen reaches his potential. Penn and Olson come up and pitch well.

2. We sign a big bat or two in the offseason (huge precedent for this!)

3. Our aging guys maintain their level of performance or play even better.

4. Kakes becomes a legit 3 hitter.

5. We make some big moves during the all star break by giving up some young guys (again huge precedent!)

Meanwhile all the other teams I mentioned are making moves as well. You really want to bank on this scenario? You really want our plan to assume amazing luck and competent front office moves?!!!!!!!!!

[Mark J]

There are 8 legit teams in the AL....8 teams that i think are all capable of 90+ wins. Now, they won't all win that many but they are all that good.

And that doesn't include Toronto.

The Orioles need to be winning more like 93-98 games to get into the playoffs.

You're probably right. But IF (not saying we can count on it, but...) Bedard, Loewen, Cabrera, Olson or Penn & a league average durable 4-5 are pitching well for us and we we even make moderate upgrades to our offense, we've got a chance to be pretty close to that. If/when our young pitching clicks (and next year it'll be closer than now), we're going to have a chance to be competitive.

[Mark J]

Heard of the White Sox, Angels, A's, Blue Jays, Twins, Tigers, Indians, Yankees/Red Sox (whoever's not winning the division)?

Is there a scenario where we can make the playoffs? Sure!

1. Our pitching stays healthy. Bedard is an ace. Cabrera takes the next step. Loewen reaches his potential. Penn and Olson come up and pitch well.

2. We sign a big bat or two in the offseason (huge precedent for this!)

3. Our aging guys maintain their level of performance or play even better.

4. Kakes becomes a legit 3 hitter.

5. We make some big moves during the all star break by giving up some young guys (again huge precedent!)

Meanwhile all the other teams I mentioned are making moves as well. You really want to bank on this scenario? You really want our plan to assume amazing luck and competent front office moves?!!!!!!!!!

Who said I was banking on it? Not me. I just said it was possible. But everyone that thinks the only choice is to blow the team up needs to realize that there could be as much risk in blowing the team apart (because there's no guarantee the guys we trade for are all going to pan out or stay healthy either). There's also no guarantee we'd get worthwhile offers from other teams for the guys we WANT to trade to make it worth trading them. There are a LOT of "ifs" in that scenario too.