Trade deadline possibilities

[Redskins Rick]

We should be tired of acquiring mediocre talent and trading good cheaper prospects for it. We gave away 2 talented pitchers to the Cubs for players we no longer have.

Both players were performing very badly, too.

[aewell]

Ok, I've already posted this once but let's do it again for this thread. Shoemaker entered the year coming off a terrible 2015 and started 2016 even worse. After he was sent to triple A he reworked his splitter and drastically increased its usage going from 22.2% to 34.0%. He also had a small uptick in his velocity and improved his first strike % from 60.5 to 67.7 which means he's ahead of more hitters . Those changes have led to a drastic decrease in contact made by hitters. Contact out of the zone fell from 64.8% to 54.5%, in the zone fell from 88.3% to 83.9%. His overall contact rate dropped from 80.3% to 73.2%. Not only are the contact rates down, but they're down despite swing% being up across the board. He's completely baffling hitters.

Since the Demotion:

3.18ERA 2.80FIP 3.43xFIP 9.55K/9 1.41BB/9 and he's actually been a bit unlucky as he's sporting a .333babip right now.

So tell me again how he sucks or he's only getting worse.

Look at his last 2 starts he lasted 4ip & 5 runs and 5ip & 3 runs innings and the league is batting .275 against him.. It's amazing how some are trying to make this guy like he is something special. I repeat he has 1 good season out of 3 in the majors.

[LookitsPuck]

Look at his last 2 starts he lasted 4ip & 5 runs and 5ip & 3 runs innings and the league is batting .275 against him.. It's amazing how some are trying to make this guy like he is something special. I repeat he has 1 good season out of 3 in the majors.

1 out of 2. This year is TBD, but for 3/4 of what has been played he's been very good.

[aewell]

Both players were performing very badly, too.

And how did that work out for us afterwards? Clearly someone was bad at evaluating talent or coaching on our part. Lets not duplicate that mistake.

[aewell]

1 out of 2. This year is TBD, but for 3/4 of what has been played he's been very good.

2015 he was

7 wins 10 losses 4.46ERA 1.26 WHIp

2016 currently

4 wins 9 losses 4.45ERA 1.32 WHIp

Hmmm.. I see your point.. He is on pace to do better

[Redskins Rick]

And how did that work out for us afterwards? Clearly someone was bad at evaluating talent or coaching on our part. Lets not duplicate that mistake.

Relievers are a fickle bunch, sometimes, they are on, and they lose it, and sometimes they get it back. Look at Johnson and Hunter.

I like to think that the team has better pitching coaches here now

[LookitsPuck]

2015 he was

7 wins 10 losses 4.46ERA 1.26 WHIp

2016 currently

4 wins 9 losses 4.45ERA 1.32 WHIp

Hmmm.. I see your point.. He is on pace to do better

Did you not see my stats from before? Since middle of May he has top of the rotation starter numbers. It wouldn't shock me if by end of the year he's had a better season than 2015 (not as good as 2014), though.

[aewell]

Relievers are a fickle bunch, sometimes, they are on, and they lose it, and sometimes they get it back. Look at Johnson and Hunter.

I like to think that the team has better pitching coaches here now

Jake Arrieta wasn't primarily a reliever that I recall with the O's. But the point is can we stop with the mediocre pitchers and then complain that our farm is depleted and watch traded young talent succeed somewhere else.

[aewell]

Did you not see my stats from before? Since middle of May he has top of the rotation starter numbers. It wouldn't shock me if by end of the year he's had a better season than 2015 (not as good as 2014), though.

Did you not see he hasn't made it past the 5th inning in his last two starts. Sorry I am not buying the swamp land you are trying to sell me. What about his actual stats I posted are you disputing. If your argument is that he seems to be better now. My argument is he could easily revert back. Teams will scout him and adjust to whatever adjustment he has made. This was an undrafted player who has overachieved. God bless him. He has 1 good year out of 2.5 to date.

[Tryptamine]

Look at his last 2 starts he lasted 4ip & 5 runs and 5ip & 3 runs innings and the league is batting .275 against him.. It's amazing how some are trying to make this guy like he is something special. I repeat he has 1 good season out of 3 in the majors.

So you're saying if you focus on his 2 worst starts he looks bad, imagine that. Not many pitchers look good after back to back @BAL and @BOS starts. Shoemaker is on pace for near 4 fWAR, but I'm going to assume you don't believe in WAR because of some nonsensical reason.

[Redskins Rick]

Jake Arrieta wasn't primarily a reliever that I recall with the O's. But the point is can we stop with the mediocre pitchers and then complain that our farm is depleted and watch traded young talent succeed somewhere else.

I was reference Strop whose was a reliever.

Jake was a SP that had a hitch in his giddy up, that our pitching coaches fail to correct.

[Tryptamine]

I was reference Strop whose was a reliever.

Jake was a SP that had a hitch in his giddy up, that our pitching coaches fail to correct.

I think we're getting trolled, just have to be.

[lovetoaster]

I think we're getting trolled, just have to be.

Its a lovely mix of condescension and trolling.

[aewell]

So you're saying if you focus on his 2 worst starts he looks bad, imagine that. Not many pitchers look good after back to back @BAL and @BOS starts. Shoemaker is on pace for near 4 fWAR, but I'm going to assume you don't believe in WAR because of some nonsensical reason.

"Not many pitchers look good after back to back @BAL and @BOS starts" That part of my point. Fly ball pitchers are going to be challenged against the Yanks, Jays and Sox. I hear Sedlock throws a 96mph sinker. There is a reason DD targeted him. BTW I like how you use the words ... "on pace" or he could be on pace to duplicate 2015

[ChuckS]

Its a lovely mix of condescension and trolling.

No, I think he believes most of what he says. At least he does at first and is willing to beat his argument to the ground regardless of being presented with conflicting data. This behavior is really common on the internet in general, less common here thankfully these characters usually get weeded out.