Boras, Orioles set to discuss Wieters extension

[Can_of_corn]

This is really a non-story. Of course there were going to be discussions.

I think Boras going to Baltimore to meet during the season is very much a story.

It is not the way Boras generally does business with players who are about to hit free agency.

I think a deal is significantly more likely to happen now than I did even a day ago.

[Ohfan67]

I think Boras going to Baltimore to meet during the season is very much a story.

It is not the way Boras generally does business with players who are about to hit free agency.

I think a deal is significantly more likely to happen now than I did even a day ago.

Totally agree. If Boras is in Baltimore to talk about Wieters then they have already made some progress and Angelos is likely to be or get involved. If true, then the Os are likely to overpay IMO.

[Can_of_corn]

No way he expects 3/45. I'd sooner give him another QO.

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I'm thinking something closer to 2/20 with an option for 2019. No way they are getting a big payday out of his performance, if that was going to happen it would have last offseason.

[Mayor McCheese]

whatever happened to the argument... we don't need to sign Wieters, CJ is basically the same player but much cheaper...

... oh right...

[Ruzious]

I am glad the board is not in charge of the team as every player would either be traded away for prospects or let go for nothing.

Then you must think they have an unlimited budget.

[weams]

Then you must think they have an unlimited budget.

Or even that the budget as shown in this go for it season is sustainable with 30k fans on a Friday night and great weather intheheart of the last two weeks of a pennant race and in the last 10 days at home all season. I suspect that payroll at this levels is not going to continue.

[hoosiers]

It is interesting that Boras is going to speak with DD at this point in the season. I think it is a confluence of factors including Wieters having declining value, Wieters camp realizing there is unlikely to be a four year deal out there at quality AAV, Wieters enjoying Bmore, most big market teams having a quality C options esp with NYY Sanchez emerging, etc.

The emergence of Bundy helps next year's payroll situation and the ability to save some $ at catcher by giving Wieters $2M-$4M less is attractive.

[LookitsPuck]

Let Matt walk. Sign Soto (if healthy). Move on. Sign someone who can frame pitches and/or isn't a below average hitter.

Matt's WAR over the years:

2011: 4.9

2012: 3.5

2013: 0.6

2014: 0.7 (short season)

2015: 0.8 (didn't play full time)

2016: 0.9

He's 30. Will be 31 early next year.

[backwardsk]

Can Soto play 50 games?

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[Can_of_corn]

Let Matt walk. Sign Soto (if healthy). Move on. Sign someone who can frame pitches and/or isn't a below average hitter.

Matt's WAR over the years:

2011: 4.9

2012: 3.5

2013: 0.6

2014: 0.7 (short season)

2015: 0.8 (didn't play full time)

2016: 0.9

He's 30. Will be 31 early next year.

You are one of the big pitch framing proponents, let me ask you a few questions.

Do you think the 4 win number at the top of the framing curve is accurate?

If framing is as valuable as has been speculated how come the market worth of framing as a skill is not evident?

If framing is as valuable as has been speculated how come a superior framer is not brought in as a defensive replacement in save situations?

[fansince71]

Mean while Boston gets lucky with just cash considerations they pick up Leon and MFY's have Gary Pujols Sanchez. I say let MW walk. Good GM's pay for what a player is gonna do and not what they have done. A mistake we may have made with O'day.

[Can_of_corn]

Mean while Boston gets lucky with just cash considerations they pick up Leon and MFY's have Gary Pujols Sanchez. I say let MW walk. Good GM's pay for what a player is gonna do and not what they have done. A mistake we may have made with O'day.

And Davis.

[LookitsPuck]

You are one of the big pitch framing proponents, let me ask you a few questions.

Do you think the 4 win number at the top of the framing curve is accurate?

If framing is as valuable as has been speculated how come the market worth of framing as a skill is not evident?

If framing is as valuable as has been speculated how come a superior framer is not brought in as a defensive replacement in save situations?

I don't think it's caught on as much, yet. It's also possibly something that could be fleeting soon if an electronic strikezone happens.

As for 4 wins? Seems high. And most contend that the stat is erratic based on a variety of factors. But I put a lot of value in it especially with fringe starters like Gallardo who have to live on the edges. Or high leverage situations. Just by watching games and getting away from numbers, Caleb is much better at it than Wieters. Wieters has a tendency to do a lot of odd things as a catcher. When he catches breaking pitches he has a tendency to follow the path of the pitch after its caught...as opposed to bringing it back in while it's getting to his glove. He also has a tendency to backhand pitches instead of getting in front of them (not framing related).

So, I think framing is very real. I don't know how dramatic it is in terms of concrete numbers, but I respect the hell out of guys like Huntington who bought into it heavily.

[Can_of_corn]

I don't think it's caught on as much, yet. It's also possibly something that could be fleeting soon if an electronic strikezone happens.

As for 4 wins? Seems high. And most contend that the stat is erratic based on a variety of factors. But I put a lot of value in it especially with fringe starters like Gallardo who have to live on the edges. Or high leverage situations. Just by watching games and getting away from numbers, Caleb is much better at it than Wieters. Wieters has a tendency to do a lot of odd things as a catcher. When he catches breaking pitches he has a tendency to follow the path of the pitch after its caught...as opposed to bringing it back in while it's getting to his glove. He also has a tendency to backhand pitches instead of getting in front of them (not framing related).

So, I think framing is very real. I don't know how dramatic it is in terms of concrete numbers, but I respect the hell out of guys like Huntington who bought into it heavily.

I don't think anyone discounts it's existence.

I just think that the effects are being exaggerated and if the impact was close to what was being claimed than it would be shown in contracts and how framers are deployed in game situations.

I think a goodly number of teams have access to information and statistical models that the best guys out of the loop can't touch.

Side question, would you bring in Caleb to catch the 9th in save situations?

[LookitsPuck]

There's only so many catchers out there, too. I think that plays into it. And pitch framing is still very new. But give Big Data Baseball a read. Pretty fascinating.

Re: Caleb. I don't think Britton is the issue. If it's working with Wieters...why change it? I do see where you're getting at due to Britton's movement. But he's been very effective regardless. To that end, I'd like to see framing data per pitcher being caught.

I mainly worry about guys like Gallardo, Bundy and Ubaldo. Guys that live on the black or the bottom of the zone.

FWIW, my issues with Wieters isn't just framing. Blocking pitches is a concern as is sequencing.

Overall, I just don't think Wieters is all that great. He's not bad. But I never bought much into Wieters aside from when he was such a plus defensive catcher and offensive catcher.