Tillman is Back

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Cumberbundy said:

Ks/9 is a fairly useless stat, Ks/PA is what matters. If Tillman gets some Ks because he eventually faces guys who belong in the minors, it's not a positive. Give up 5 hits and strike out the 8/9 of a team like the cws is worthless. Tillman faces 9 batters in an inning, strikes out 1, and some like his K rate. ? 

I think most of us have enough sense to look at the WHIP, walk and hit rate while we are looking at the K/9.

[Larry18]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think most of us have enough sense to look at the WHIP, walk and hit rate while we are looking at the K/9.

Or simply look at the K%.

[Frobby]

47 minutes ago, Cumberbundy said:

Ks/9 is a fairly useless stat, Ks/PA is what matters. If Tillman gets some Ks because he eventually faces guys who belong in the minors, it's not a positive. Give up 5 hits and strike out the 8/9 of a team like the cws is worthless. Tillman faces 9 batters in an inning, strikes out 1, and some like his K rate. ? 

 

43 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think most of us have enough sense to look at the WHIP, walk and hit rate while we are looking at the K/9.

 

39 minutes ago, Larry18 said:

Or simply look at the K%.

It makes sense that K% is a better stat than K/9.     The data needed for K/9 has typically been more commonly published, so that's why we're in the habit of using it.    I can go to Tillman's main BB-ref page and find his K/9, but I need an extra two clicks to get his K%. Laziness prevails!

[Cumberbundy]

54 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think most of us have enough sense to look at the WHIP, walk and hit rate while we are looking at the K/9.

You may not be humble, but at least you're defensive. Take off your cape, sport.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Cumberbundy said:

You may not be humble, but at least you're defensive. Take off your cape, sport.

Whatever you say, pops.

[Cumberbundy]

6 minutes ago, Frobby said:

 

 

It makes sense that K% is a better stat than K/9.     The data needed for K/9 has typically been more commonly published, so that's why we're in the habit of using it.    I can go to Tillman's main BB-ref page and find his K/9, but I need an extra two clicks to get his K%. Laziness prevails!

I was, in no way, intending to be critical of you, we all hear K/9 used by itself as if it has extraordinary significance - but when talking about a guy who faces as many batters per inning as Kerahaw faces in 3 it can obviously be misleading. Tillman looks more likely to strike out the same guy 3 times in an inning than he does to strike out the side. That's not always been the case of course. The DL seems like it may be a better option than sending Tillman out every 5th day; the disabled list or DL Hall. Either one.

Ive read your posts for many moons, I always respect a Frobby take. It is hard to watch Tillman go from a legit 2/3 to a guy who likely won't get a qualifying offer. I've not been a big fan of Tillmans but he's been a big part of the only success we've had in 25 years. He and Jones have provided more than I ever expected, it's tough to watch them each appear to be playing on guts the last 18 months or so. They've done a lot for us.

 

[Larry18]

39 minutes ago, Frobby said:

 

 

It makes sense that K% is a better stat than K/9.     The data needed for K/9 has typically been more commonly published, so that's why we're in the habit of using it.    I can go to Tillman's main BB-ref page and find his K/9, but I need an extra two clicks to get his K%. Laziness prevails!

I look at the batters faced column and wing it i.e. Buddy's K'd 63 of 353 batters, so 3.5X = 63, or 126/7 which is around 18%. There weren't calculators when I was a kid.

[Frobby]

57 minutes ago, Larry18 said:

I look at the batters faced column and wing it i.e. Buddy's K'd 63 of 353 batters, so 3.5X = 63, or 126/7 which is around 18%. There weren't calculators when I was a kid.

Slide rules, man!    I had a cousin who calculated the Pirates' players' batting averages every day using a slide rule.    Of course, I thought he was out of his mind. 

[Cumberbundy]

0 strike outs. That could have been worse, but he managed to keep his era from going over 9. 

[Nevermore]

This might seem weird.  But maybe Tillman needs some time in the pen. Asher or Aquino could replace him. 

[Frobby]

Just saw Tillman's postgame interview.    He insists he's completely healthy, but he's really down on himself.    He knows he's not pitching at a competitive level.   

[sportsfan8703]

26 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Just saw Tillman's postgame interview.    He insists he's completely healthy, but he's really down on himself.    He knows he's not pitching at a competitive level.   

Sad about the millions he's costed himself.  As terrible as he's been, and how we are with injuries, I have to think if he were hurt that he'd be not pitching.  

[MDtransplant757]

33 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Just saw Tillman's postgame interview.    He insists he's completely healthy, but he's really down on himself.    He knows he's not pitching at a competitive level.   

He knows he's surviving on IQ alone and that his arm is done. You can tell he wants to help his team out too is what sucks

[SteveA]

10 hours ago, Frobby said:

Just saw Tillman's postgame interview.    He insists he's completely healthy, but he's really down on himself.    He knows he's not pitching at a competitive level.   

So, is he:

   1) Telling the truth, and he is truly completely healthy?

   2) In denial about an injury and its effect on his pitching?

   3) Really hurt but flat out lying about it to the media and fans?  (Perhaps because he doesn't want to make excuses).

Seems to me that one of the three statements MUST be true.  Which one is it?

[Ohfan67]

10 hours ago, MDtransplant757 said:

He knows he's surviving on IQ alone and that his arm is done. You can tell he wants to help his team out too is what sucks

I've posted several times that I think his shoulder injury is serious and he's pitching hurt, but the more you look at his velocity the more it looks like his arm is NOT done. If "his arm was done", then I would expect to see a big drop in fastball velocity, but that has not happened...he's basically throwing as hard as ever right now. Maybe the shoulder is hindering his control? It's a confusing situation, for sure.