Manny furious after the game

[Redskins Rick]

6 hours ago, Hallas said:

Farrell's a piece of crap.

I want Machado to hit another HR tomorrow, and give the biggest bat flip in the entire universe while jogging David Ortiz speed around the bases with the biggest s***-eating grin on his face.

I feel like the Orioles are going to throw at someone.

Buck hates to throw at people, he is not old school in that regard, "eye for eye".

He has said many times, there are better ways to get back at the opposing them, then risking serious or life threatening injury.

[joeyc]

I'll say it again, classless organization, classless fans.

[Ohfan67]

If the Sox throw at anyone, then there will be a brawl. If there's a brawl, then it's on the umps and MLB. they need to announce a suspension of Sale or similar before today's game. This thing is about to get even uglier. 

[sportsfan8703]

We're in Boston's heads. I don't care that they won last night. Seems like they are doing an awful lot of thinking about the O's. 

Take a look a Boston's schedule so far. It's been pretty weak. 7 games vs the NL( B  League), only 2 vs NYY, and some AL central scrubs. Meanwhile we've played nothing but the AL East except 3 games in an NL ballpark. 

They just don't have Papi's mojo(roids) this year. No need to lower ourselves to fight with some overrated, overpriced, over the hill team. 

[sportsfan8703]

2 minutes ago, joeyc said:

I'll say it again, classless organization, classless fans.

Bingo. Summarizes the whole thread. 

[Frobby]

9 hours ago, cheecks said:

This keeps happening because Buck's team always just takes it and never ever retaliate. It's easy to say just take the high road when you're not being thrown at. And Dylan throwing at Betts was not a retaliation, that was an accident. At some point we have to stand up to bullies.

In the time Buck has been our manager, Oriole batters have been hit 304 times (9th in the AL), and Oriole pitchers have hit opposing batters 322 times (7th in the AL).   I see no significant evidence that the O's are subject to extra harassment from opposing pitchers because we don't retaliate when other teams throw at us.    I'm perfectly happy with the way the team handle such situations.    

[Tbone83]

I thought when Ortiz retired, my Boston hate would dissipate somewhat. Silly me. 

[ArtVanDelay]

32 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

We're in Boston's heads. I don't care that they won last night. Seems like they are doing an awful lot of thinking about the O's. 

Take a look a Boston's schedule so far. It's been pretty weak. 7 games vs the NL( B  League), only 2 vs NYY, and some AL central scrubs. Meanwhile we've played nothing but the AL East except 3 games in an NL ballpark. 

They just don't have Papi's mojo(roids) this year. No need to lower ourselves to fight with some overrated, overpriced, over the hill team. 

3 of their 6 NL games have been against the Cubs. 

[ReclaimTheCrown]

I don't blame Manny one iota for being furious.

This, to me, is all the more reason to dislike the DH.  I've hated that rule for a while for several reasons, but this is perhaps the most glaring.  This is not to say this silliness doesn't happen in the NL, because it does.  Nonetheless, if Sale has to grab some lumber in a couple innings and step into the box, he'd at least have to think twice about buzzing 98 behind Machado.  It's ultimately just cowardly.

I did some nominal searching, but I'd be interested if there was any data suggesting there are more beanballs, and perhaps what is more measurable would be bench-clearing brawls, in the AL than the NL for this very reason.  Obviously may not be an indicator, and the stats may not bear it out (if anyone even does collect those stats), but it'd be interesting to see.  

 

[FlipTheBird]

1 hour ago, Ohfan67 said:

If the Sox throw at anyone, then there will be a brawl. If there's a brawl, then it's on the umps and MLB. they need to announce a suspension of Sale or similar before today's game. This thing is about to get even uglier. 

They're certainly turning tonight's game into must-see TV. And Machado will, per the norm, be hitting in the top of the 1st...

[Ohfan67]

16 minutes ago, ReclaimTheCrown said:

 

This, to me, is all the more reason to dislike the DH.  I've hated that rule for a while for several reasons, but this is perhaps the most glaring. 

 

Good hypotheses, but  a quick look at the last ten years (including this season)suggests not: The NL leader in HBP was hit more than the AL leader in HBP in eight of those years. The AL probably had more HBP in the '80's, but the reverse looks true for the 70's. HBP numbers look lower in the 40's and 50's than they are now, but seem stable since the early '90's. I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that the DH rule has had an effect. You could probably argue that the focus on velocity, smaller strike zone, PED's, or something else associated with the "live ball era" that started in the early '90's has had an effect, but I don't think the DH rule has increased HBP. 

[Ohfan67]

5 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

Good hypotheses, but  a quick look at the last ten years (including this season)suggests not: The NL leader in HBP was hit more than the AL leader in HBP in eight of those years. The AL probably had more HBP in the '80's, but the reverse looks true for the 70's. HBP numbers look lower in the 40's and 50's than they are now, but seem stable since the early '90's. I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that the DH rule has had an effect. You could probably argue that the focus on velocity, smaller strike zone, PED's, or something else associated with the "live ball era" that started in the early '90's has had an effect, but I don't think the DH rule has increased HBP. 

p.s. You could also argue that the body armor, personal batting strategy and standing on top of the plate has had a big effect. It's clear that certain players are far more likely to get HBP and it's not really correlated with power, etc. For example, Brandon Guyer has led the AL in HBP in the last two years...and he had less than 400 AB's in both of those years! He had 8 and 9 home runs in those two years, respectively. I didn't even know who this guy was until I saw the HBP stats and looked him up. 

[Frobby]

8 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

Good hypotheses, but  a quick look at the last ten years (including this season)suggests not: The NL leader in HBP was hit more than the AL leader in HBP in eight of those years. The AL probably had more HBP in the '80's, but the reverse looks true for the 70's. HBP numbers look lower in the 40's and 50's than they are now, but seem stable since the early '90's. I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that the DH rule has had an effect. You could probably argue that the focus on velocity, smaller strike zone, PED's, or something else associated with the "live ball era" that started in the early '90's has had an effect, but I don't think the DH rule has increased HBP. 

Last year, the average AL team was hit 51 times, while the average NL team was hit 59 times.   

[Tx Oriole]

11 hours ago, ORIOLE33 said:

I didn't see the game, but I heard Sale threw at Manny and there was absolutely no warning?

I stand corrected. Both benches were apparently warned.

This is all on Farrel. He is the one who started all this mess.

[ReclaimTheCrown]

6 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

Good hypotheses, but  a quick look at the last ten years (including this season)suggests not: The NL leader in HBP was hit more than the AL leader in HBP in eight of those years. The AL probably had more HBP in the '80's, but the reverse looks true for the 70's. HBP numbers look lower in the 40's and 50's than they are now, but seem stable since the early '90's. I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that the DH rule has had an effect. You could probably argue that the focus on velocity, smaller strike zone, PED's, or something else associated with the "live ball era" that started in the early '90's has had an effect, but I don't think the DH rule has increased HBP. 

Thanks for doing some digging.  I'm not surprised that overall HBPs are pretty even, as one would expect as much since the large majority of HBPs are unintentional.  That's why I mentioned if there was anyway to track beanballs, which I'm sure there really isn't (case in point is Bundy hitting Betts in game one....I've seen varied opinions on whether or not that was intentional). 

I think what could be an indicator would be brawls - usually they stem from an escalating series of perceived provocations, often to include guys getting plunked.  That said, obviously there are plenty of other factors that go into what triggers a brawl, so it wouldn't be a perfect data point, but would probably be a little better than simply HBP. 

Almost certainly no way to actually tell any of this or prove the theory that having to stand in the batter's box is a deterrent for pitchers throwing at someone, but interesting to think about.  Thanks, again, for doing some of the research.