Fun with optionable pitchers

[Redskins Rick]

1 hour ago, George Zuverink said:

Good point. I looked at the stats from my father's last season in what was the equivalent of low in 1948, the year I was born. He had 16 complete games and 300 AB playing in the field when he wasn't pitching. The top guy in his league had twice as many complete games. 

He also lost the edge on his fastball, but blamed that on playing tetherball on a cold rainy day the day after pitching most of both halves of a doubleheader  

 

Look to 1968, and Gibson had 34 stats and 28 complete games, those guys went out and pitched, thats way they were being paid to do.

[Redskins Rick]

1 hour ago, UpstateNYfan said:

I remember Earl talking about Palmer's complaints of aches and pain...it went roughly like this.."Palmer on his worst day, feels better than me on my best day." Yes, the current games tends to be careful with pitchers. It will continue to evolve and change. IMO, 6 innings by "starters" will eventually decrease...the 100 pitch will change to two times through the line up (I believe there is supported evidence that pitchers' effectiveness  the third time through decreases). So, over the years there has been more specialists....closer, set up, long relief, middle relief. Things will change.

I look for 6 man SP across baseball in the next couple of years. IMO

[UpstateNYfan]

1 hour ago, Redskins Rick said:

I look for 6 man SP across baseball in the next couple of years. IMO

Perhaps, but teams are finding it hard to find 5, so 6 will be difficult. We are seeing a 6th to give the 5 a rest later in the season, so a 5.5 kind of exists now. Did guys pitching on 3 days rest keep them sharper? If you went to 5 days rest, how do you keep them sharp. BP sessions do not imitate a game. I sometimes wonder if a guy like UJ  (or any finesse pitcher of your choice) would be better with more work.

[Redskins Rick]

2 minutes ago, UpstateNYfan said:

Perhaps, but teams are finding it hard to find 5, so 6 will be difficult. We are seeing a 6th to give the 5 a rest later in the season, so a 5.5 kind of exists now. Did guys pitching on 3 days rest keep them sharper? If you went to 5 days rest, how do you keep them sharp. BP sessions do not imitate a game. I sometimes wonder if a guy like UJ  (or any finesse pitcher of your choice) would be better with more work.

Throw Tillman on 3 days rest, and he is not as good as he is on 4 days rest.

Some guys it doesn't hurt, but some it does.

If Britton sits too long, he throws too hard, and doesn't have the great slider, that he has with regular work.

[LookitsPuck]

2 hours ago, backwardsk said:

I'm referencing the guys he has acquired, with options, and has used on the shuttle this season:

Asher

Aquino

Ynoa

Bleier

Verrett

Nuno 

We gave up cash and Ryan Moseley for these 48.2 innings.

I'd add Fry, Lee, Faulkner, and Castro if/when they pitch.

And some of them shouldn't be on a major league roster. Some have been cannon fodder. 

[backwardsk]

45 minutes ago, LookitsPuck said:

And some of them shouldn't be on a major league roster. Some have been cannon fodder. 

Of those six, you can only point to two and make that case.  I could have cherry picked the top four and say that their ERA is 1.85 over 29.2 IP.  

All of them have made positive contributions to the team.  They get shuttled back and forth in order to have more roster flexibility and to not over expose them.

You say that none of them are any good.  That can be your opinion, it's just not supported by the early season results.

BTW, the starting pitching that DD went out into the market to obtain has a 3.62 ERA in 14 starts. (Miley, Asher, Aquino, and Jimenez)

And, as to the canon fodder comment, there was the blown game in NY that contributes to most of those runs.  It's part of the record, and it all counts, but if you take that game away, those six guys would have a combined ERA of 3.00.  But they are all no good.

[LookitsPuck]

3 hours ago, backwardsk said:

Of those six, you can only point to two and make that case.  I could have cherry picked the top four and say that their ERA is 1.85 over 29.2 IP.  

All of them have made positive contributions to the team.  They get shuttled back and forth in order to have more roster flexibility and to not over expose them.

You say that none of them are any good.  That can be your opinion, it's just not supported by the early season results.

BTW, the starting pitching that DD went out into the market to obtain has a 3.62 ERA in 14 starts. (Miley, Asher, Aquino, and Jimenez)

And, as to the canon fodder comment, there was the blown game in NY that contributes to most of those runs.  It's part of the record, and it all counts, but if you take that game away, those six guys would have a combined ERA of 3.00.  But they are all no good.

Ynoa has made *1* appearance. And he's hurt. 

Verrett has made *1* appearance. But last year had an ERA over 5 in the NL.

Nuno has been awful. 6.55 ERA.

Aquino has been awful. 9.00 ERA.

Bleier has thrown 4 innings. Too soon to tell on him.

Asher has been solid.

And you list Jimenez...but he's largely been poor for the O's over the course of his contract. An ERA near 5.00. 

Miley had an ERA over 6 in 54 IP last year...and has been solid this year. Still TBD.

[LookitsPuck]

2 hours ago, dan-O said:

? And who would you have put into the games instead? 

That wasn't my point. 

[bpilktree]

The shuttle is warmed up and headed to Baltimore again.  Who will be on it this time.

[sportsfan8703]

Good job Verrett.  Now see you in 10 days. I'm guessing Bleier, Aquino and Nuno are eligible to be called up again. 

[backwardsk]

1 minute ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Good job Verrett.  Now see you in 10 days. I'm guessing Bleier, Aquino and Nuno are eligible to be called up again. 

I don't think Bleier is.  He pitched in the ejection game last Wednesday.  Fry is available.

[sportsfan8703]

On 5/4/2017 at 9:30 AM, Frobby said:

4/13 - Crichton up

4/15 - Crichton down, Asher up

4/16 - Britton to DL, Crichton back up

4/19 - Wilson down, Aquino up

4/25 - Crichton down, Fry up

4/27 - Fry down

4/30 - Aquino down, Nuno down, Verrett up, Bleier up

5/1 - Verrett down, Wright up

5/2 - Wright down, Britton off DL.

Whew!    And more moves coming today.    It's going to be quite a merry-go-round this season.    

Nuno and Aquino will be eligible at midnight. 

[bpilktree]

3 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

How can you send Verrett out after that?  Asher, O'Day, and Hart are rested going into tomorrow.  I think they wait and see how the next day or two go.

I doubt it with playing in NL park.  They will add someone.  Both long guys are lefty and Miley starting though.

[sportsfan8703]

5 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

How can you send Verrett out after that?  Asher, O'Day, and Hart are rested going into tomorrow.  I think they wait and see how the next day or two go.

Easily. Verrett is cooked for the next two days. I'm sorry but this is a by product of winning. Stick to the winning formula. 

Buck said in the post game that we had only 3 relievers available tonight. That's unacceptable. It's time to have a 7 man pen and end the 5 man bench.

Something needs to happen with Gentry or Kim. Hopefully trading Kim. With Bourn getting close that could mean DFA'ing Gentry. 

I'd call up Nuno. He's a vet. No big deal if he pitches sporadically. I'd leave Aquino starting in AAA. I'd add Yacabonis or Scott to the 40 man and call one of them up with Nuno. 

Brach, O'day, Givens, Hart, Asher, Nuno, Yacabonis or Scott. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

4 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Easily. Verrett is cooked for the next two days. I'm sorry but this is a by product of winning. Stick to the winning formula. 

Buck said in the post game that we had only 3 relievers available tonight. That's unacceptable. It's time to have a 7 man pen and end the 5 man bench.

Something needs to happen with Gentry or Kim. Hopefully trading Kim. With Bourn getting close that could mean DFA'ing Gentry. 

I'd call up Nuno. He's a vet. No big deal if he pitches sporadically. I'd leave Aquino starting in AAA. I'd add Yacabonis or Scott to the 40 man and call one of them up with Nuno. 

Brach, O'day, Givens, Hart, Asher, Nuno, Yacabonis or Scott. 

Duquette specifically built this team to have long relief and spot starters that he could send up and down all season.  Verrett pitched well tonight, but he is taking a Southwest flight to Norfolk tomorrow. 

Verrett will be back, he did a good job of saving the bullpen tonight.