Fun with optionable pitchers

[sportsfan8703]

I'd like to see us bring us a long guy and a guy that could be a set up guy. So Asher and Yacabonis. Brach has pitched in back to back games. I'd say Liranzo but we need someone who is reliable and pitching well. If not Yacabonis then maybe a guy like Rich Rodriguez or Ryan Meisenger. 

Oddly enough, it's our back end depth that is going to look thin without Britton. 

I think Steve Johnson could be a reliable set up guy. He pitched pretty well for Seattle just last year. The thing with him is always health. If he's healthy then he could be a guy we use like Givens. Or like Hunter last year. 

[LookitsPuck]

On 5/5/2017 at 9:19 PM, backwardsk said:

Ynoa looks bad, amiright?

Maybe not use a single start to judge an entirety of a career. Especially now that he's on the DL.

[George Zuverink]

The Norfolk to Baltimore shuttle has been running for several years and the frequency seems to increase every year. I don't remember that level of activity until DD arrived. What prompted the change? Did he discover a previously unrecognized market inefficiency? Was there an enabling change to the CBA? Is it a transitory situation until we have five or six starting pitchers who are really major league ready and able? Did coming close for five years and increasing payroll put us in a position where it was the only way left to eke out incremental improvement when competing against teams the resources of the MFY, the Sux, the Cubs, and the Dodgers without busting the budget? Did we simply become a more attractive landing spot for AAAA+ pitchers? I can see where it might be a mix of some or all of the above.  I'd be curious to hear what  everyone thinks. 

[Bahama O's Fan]

Dan's Deep Depth is something we didn't have before. There wasn't anyone really worthwhile calling up. After yesterday's game, do we need another pitcher for long relief? Should we option Asher and bring someone else up?

[Redskins Rick]

1 hour ago, George Zuverink said:

The Norfolk to Baltimore shuttle has been running for several years and the frequency seems to increase every year. I don't remember that level of activity until DD arrived. What prompted the change? Did he discover a previously unrecognized market inefficiency? Was there an enabling change to the CBA? Is it a transitory situation until we have five or six starting pitchers who are really major league ready and able? Did coming close for five years and increasing payroll put us in a position where it was the only way left to eke out incremental improvement when competing against teams the resources of the MFY, the Sux, the Cubs, and the Dodgers without busting the budget? Did we simply become a more attractive landing spot for AAAA+ pitchers? I can see where it might be a mix of some or all of the above.  I'd be curious to hear what  everyone thinks. 

To me, the change is, how quickly they shut down a pitcher for rest. "Old" days, they pitch when they was nicked and not 100%.

Grimsely has said repeatedly that baseball cuddles pitchers too much these days.

I think the other thing is, they are finding out these days, if the pitcher is 90% and not 100%, then he loses some velocity, breaking action or control, sometimes all, and becomes very hittable.

[sportsfan8703]

If a rotation of Bundy, Miley, Tillman, Gausman, Ubaldo/Asher is consistently going 6 IP, then you'll see the activity slow down. But last week we had shuttle guys pitching almost as many innings as our SP's. 

A guy to watch it Tanner Scott. Through 18 IP he has a 1.50 ERA in AAA. He and Liranzo have the biggest upsides when it comes to back end relief roles. 

[Frobby]

Updating the OP:

4/13 - Crichton up

4/15 - Crichton down, Asher up

4/16 - Britton to DL, Crichton back up

4/19 - Wilson down, Aquino up

4/25 - Crichton down, Fry up

4/27 - Fry down

4/30 - Aquino down, Nuno down, Verrett up, Bleier up

5/1 - Verrett down, Wright up

5/2 - Wright down, Britton off DL.

5/4 - Bleier down, Asher down, Ynoa up, Wilson up

5/5 - Wilson down, Crichton up

5/6 - Britton to DL, Ynoa to DL, Verrett up, Asher up

5/7 - Tillman off DL, Crichton down

[backwardsk]

8 hours ago, LookitsPuck said:

Maybe not use a single start to judge an entirety of a career. Especially now that he's on the DL.

Ynoa didn't start. Did you know that?

 

[UpstateNYfan]

43 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

To me, the change is, how quickly they shut down a pitcher for rest. "Old" days, they pitch when they was nicked and not 100%.

Grimsely has said repeatedly that baseball cuddles pitchers too much these days.

I think the other thing is, they are finding out these days, if the pitcher is 90% and not 100%, then he loses some velocity, breaking action or control, sometimes all, and becomes very hittable.

I remember Earl talking about Palmer's complaints of aches and pain...it went roughly like this.."Palmer on his worst day, feels better than me on my best day." Yes, the current games tends to be careful with pitchers. It will continue to evolve and change. IMO, 6 innings by "starters" will eventually decrease...the 100 pitch will change to two times through the line up (I believe there is supported evidence that pitchers' effectiveness  the third time through decreases). So, over the years there has been more specialists....closer, set up, long relief, middle relief. Things will change.

[George Zuverink]

1 hour ago, Redskins Rick said:

To me, the change is, how quickly they shut down a pitcher for rest. "Old" days, they pitch when they was nicked and not 100%.

Grimsely has said repeatedly that baseball cuddles pitchers too much these days.

I think the other thing is, they are finding out these days, if the pitcher is 90% and not 100%, then he loses some velocity, breaking action or control, sometimes all, and becomes very hittable.

Good point. I looked at the stats from my father's last season in what was the equivalent of low in 1948, the year I was born. He had 16 complete games and 300 AB playing in the field when he wasn't pitching. The top guy in his league had twice as many complete games. 

He also lost the edge on his fastball, but blamed that on playing tetherball on a cold rainy day the day after pitching most of both halves of a doubleheader  

 

[LookitsPuck]

46 minutes ago, backwardsk said:

Ynoa didn't start. Did you know that?

 

We're going to get technical here? He went 6 starting in the 2nd inning. It's pretty damn close. You get the point.

[maybenxtyr]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Updating the OP:

4/13 - Crichton up

4/15 - Crichton down, Asher up

4/16 - Britton to DL, Crichton back up

4/19 - Wilson down, Aquino up

4/25 - Crichton down, Fry up

4/27 - Fry down

4/30 - Aquino down, Nuno down, Verrett up, Bleier up

5/1 - Verrett down, Wright up

5/2 - Wright down, Britton off DL.

5/4 - Bleier down, Asher down, Ynoa up, Wilson up

5/5 - Wilson down, Crichton up

5/6 - Britton to DL, Ynoa to DL, Verrett up, Asher up

5/7 - Tillman off DL, Crichton down

MLB is going to have to implement a maximum amount of transactions like fantasy baseball if DD continues having success against Boston and New York.

[backwardsk]

4 minutes ago, LookitsPuck said:

We're going to get technical here? He went 6 starting in the 2nd inning. It's pretty damn close. You get the point.

You said I was judging "the entirety of a career" on one start.  I'm not judging a career and he didn't make a start.

You said that the guys Dan picked up are not good.

The guys he acquired over the past two years for the shuttle have pitched about 18% of the innings this season (about two staff positions) and have posted a 4.11 ERA.  A big reason why we are on a 108 win pace.

What is your point exactly?

[LookitsPuck]

7 minutes ago, backwardsk said:

You said I was judging "the entirety of a career" on one start.  I'm not judging a career and he didn't make a start.

You said that the guys Dan picked up are not good.

The guys he acquired over the past two years for the shuttle have pitched about 18% of the innings this season (about two staff positions) and have posted a 4.11 ERA.  A big reason why we are on a 108 win pace.

What is your point exactly?

My point is the same point I've always had: Dan Duquette has a poor track record when it comes to starting pitchers. There are a few solid cases since 2011. But generally speaking? Not so much. The reliever track record is a little better...I'll give you that. But we have little to no impact starting depth in the minors. It's been that case for years.

My other point is that you're using 18% based on a month's worth of innings. And somehow heralding a 4.11 ERA piled up by the "shuttle". Which guys are you referencing again?

[backwardsk]

I'm referencing the guys he has acquired, with options, and has used on the shuttle this season:

Asher

Aquino

Ynoa

Bleier

Verrett

Nuno 

We gave up cash and Ryan Moseley for these 48.2 innings.

I'd add Fry, Lee, Faulkner, and Castro if/when they pitch.