What Will The Orioles Do With Wade Miley?

[Norfolk orioles]

2 minutes ago, LookitsPuck said:

He has a near $170m payroll that has gone up every year since Duquette has been the GM. Can we stop the Angelos bashing re: payroll. This team is Duquette's mess.

He's the one who not only spent 60+ million on Gallardo and Jiminez (forfitting two first round draft picks in the process) but who also resigned Trumbo for 35 mil when we had Mancini waiting.

Hes the one who resigned an aging oday for 35 mil or so.

 

Maybe Angelos forced his hand on Davis but again, another epic failure. 

He has also brought in Wada (I believe) and has made some truly horrendous trades. Giving up guys like E-rod which was not awful but bad when you consider we didn't resign miller for the same amount we ended up paying for o day and Hader, Davies, Miranda, Arrieta, Strop etc.

Hell even Mark Reynolds looks like a player again (although that's probably just Colorado). Bridwell looks serviceable, there are some other ex O's have solid seasons as well while we are stuck with a gassed Tillman and the disasters that are Wade Miley and Ubaldo.

Gausman has regressed horribly (not Dan's fault) but once again we have dumpster diving signings, bad trades and zero quality depth due to Dan's awful decision making.

 

He was out of baseball for a reason. Buck is a damn fine manager but even he can't right this ship.

I think we should start the rebuild and fire Dan because I have zero faith in him to rebuild correctly.

[eddie83]

4 hours ago, LookitsPuck said:

He has a near $170m payroll that has gone up every year since Duquette has been the GM. Can we stop the Angelos bashing re: payroll. This team is Duquette's mess.

Is DD simply given a $170M budget and allowed to spend it however he wants?

The bulk of this money is from core players going into arbitration or being signed long term. The Orioles have never invested big money into their rotation. The Red Sox are paying Porcello and Price combined $50M this year. The entire Orioles rotation is under $40M, around $37.5M.  

DD has not hit on his recent pitching acquisitions and that is on him. Just don't tell me the organization invests money into the rotation compared to other teams because they don't.   

[eddie83]

4 hours ago, Norfolk orioles said:

He's the one who not only spent 60+ million on Gallardo and Jiminez (forfitting two first round draft picks in the process) but who also resigned Trumbo for 35 mil when we had Mancini waiting.

Hes the one who resigned an aging oday for 35 mil or so.

 

Maybe Angelos forced his hand on Davis but again, another epic failure. 

He has also brought in Wada (I believe) and has made some truly horrendous trades. Giving up guys like E-rod which was not awful but bad when you consider we didn't resign miller for the same amount we ended up paying for o day and Hader, Davies, Miranda, Arrieta, Strop etc.

Hell even Mark Reynolds looks like a player again (although that's probably just Colorado). Bridwell looks serviceable, there are some other ex O's have solid seasons as well while we are stuck with a gassed Tillman and the disasters that are Wade Miley and Ubaldo.

Gausman has regressed horribly (not Dan's fault) but once again we have dumpster diving signings, bad trades and zero quality depth due to Dan's awful decision making.

 

He was out of baseball for a reason. Buck is a damn fine manager but even he can't right this ship.

I think we should start the rebuild and fire Dan because I have zero faith in him to rebuild correctly.

You are bringing up Mark Reynolds who has been gone for 5 years? Parker Bridwell? Talking about stretching. 

 

[Can_of_corn]

4 hours ago, LookitsPuck said:

You can when your hit rate is in the low 7s.

And you think that's sustainable?

[Cumberbundy]

6 hours ago, LookitsPuck said:

He has a near $170m payroll that has gone up every year since Duquette has been the GM. Can we stop the Angelos bashing re: payroll. This team is Duquette's mess.

 

[Cumberbundy]

6 hours ago, Norfolk orioles said:

He's the one who not only spent 60+ million on Gallardo and Jiminez (forfitting two first round draft picks in the process) but who also resigned Trumbo for 35 mil when we had Mancini waiting.

Hes the one who resigned an aging oday for 35 mil or so.

 

Maybe Angelos forced his hand on Davis but again, another epic failure. 

He has also brought in Wada (I believe) and has made some truly horrendous trades. Giving up guys like E-rod which was not awful but bad when you consider we didn't resign miller for the same amount we ended up paying for o day and Hader, Davies, Miranda, Arrieta, Strop etc.

Hell even Mark Reynolds looks like a player again (although that's probably just Colorado). Bridwell looks serviceable, there are some other ex O's have solid seasons as well while we are stuck with a gassed Tillman and the disasters that are Wade Miley and Ubaldo.

Gausman has regressed horribly (not Dan's fault) but once again we have dumpster diving signings, bad trades and zero quality depth due to Dan's awful decision making.

 

He was out of baseball for a reason. Buck is a damn fine manager but even he can't right this ship.

I think we should start the rebuild and fire Dan because I have zero faith in him to rebuild correctly.

To give away a first round pick, first round pick, Hader (#19 prospect by prospectus), Ed Rod, Arrieta (cy young), Strop (ws win), Miranda, Bridwell, and our international draft money and end up with? ? Ubaldo, Miley, and a team picture with Feldman in it...seems a tad steep. All of those players should be helping our major league team today. Bridwell goes into NY & Boston and has back to back starts better than any we've had all year. He was unlucky not to be 2-0, I don't know if we didn't allow him to throw a cutter but his is nice...as is Jakes.

A few days ago the first place Brewers won a game using 4 pitchers, 3 were Davies, Hader, Drake. Davies may never have the stuff to pitch out of the pen in Baltimore, but it was interesting to see 3 former O's pitching for a first place team.

At least we haven't given away as much as the Nats. Those first rounders really hurt though, that's just atrocious management of resources. The fact that no one would rather have Miley than Miranda to win a game today, while Miranda costs nothing, is also difficult to watch. 

Duq is bad at identifying good trades and good haircuts, seems like a nice enough guy though.

[Cumberbundy]

2 hours ago, eddie83 said:

You are bringing up Mark Reynolds who has been gone for 5 years? Parker Bridwell? Talking about stretching. 

 

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/231025570/v1447620583/atl-laa-bridwell-tosses-six-plus-in-strong-17-debut

If I needed to win a game to get to the playoffs I'd rather have Bridwell on the mound than Tillman, Miley or Ubaldo.

[DirtyBird]

5 minutes ago, Cumberbundy said:

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/231025570/v1447620583/atl-laa-bridwell-tosses-six-plus-in-strong-17-debut

If I needed to win a game to get to the playoffs I'd rather have Bridwell on the mound than Tillman, Miley or Ubaldo.

You may want to see a couple more Bridwell starts before you make that claim.

What did you think about his last one?

[eddie83]

9 minutes ago, Cumberbundy said:

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/231025570/v1447620583/atl-laa-bridwell-tosses-six-plus-in-strong-17-debut

If I needed to win a game to get to the playoffs I'd rather have Bridwell on the mound than Tillman, Miley or Ubaldo.

This is ridiculous. Ubaldo had a great outing his last time out. The idea that DD has flushed a bunch of talent away is a joke. 

[Frobby]

14 hours ago, Mitch Connor said:

At best they were #3 starters for our rotation. Most other contenders they would have been 4 or 5. I'm just saying Dan has never got us a real 1 or 2.

Sorry, but results matter.   Chen went 46-32 in an Orioles uniform with a 3.72 ERA (110 ERA+).   Gonzalez was 39-33 with a 3.82 ERA (107 ERA+).   We paid peanuts for them, gave up no players and got a 1st round draft pick back for Chen, who got an $80 mm contract based on what he did in Baltimore.     Hammel was only excellent for us in 2012 (8-6, 3.43 ERA), but that meets my needs considering we only gave up one year of Guthrie to get him and a decent reliever, Matt Lindstrom.     Lindstrom, in turn, brought us Saunders, who shored us up in September, won the wild card game and pitched well in the ALDS vs. New York.   I'm sticking by my guns and calling all those moves excellent.     

[LookitsPuck]

On 7/4/2017 at 5:40 AM, eddie83 said:

Is DD simply given a $170M budget and allowed to spend it however he wants?

The bulk of this money is from core players going into arbitration or being signed long term. The Orioles have never invested big money into their rotation. The Red Sox are paying Porcello and Price combined $50M this year. The entire Orioles rotation is under $40M, around $37.5M.  

DD has not hit on his recent pitching acquisitions and that is on him. Just don't tell me the organization invests money into the rotation compared to other teams because they don't.   

They don't spend $20m/year on pitchers because they break. Or that is apparently the reasoning. So if that's the reasoning, it's on Duquette to build a farm system and then sign arms that can at least *look* like a #4 or a #5. The problem is Duquette has done none of those since Chen and the Hammel trade. We're talking about a 7 year sample size now.

And it's actually worse that he has so much money tied up in Hardy, Davis, Trumbo, etc. Whose decisions were those again? We can talk until the cows come home if Angelos required Duquette to resign Davis (and I'm a bit dubious of that story)...but Duquette put the years and the dollars there...and outbid himself.

[LookitsPuck]

On 7/4/2017 at 5:59 AM, Can_of_corn said:

And you think that's sustainable?

Well, my point is not whether it's sustainable, but rather you have a middling strikeout rate and so-so walk rate and be successful just as long as you're not pulling a Wade Miley who has a hit rate over 10. 

Either way, I think Miranda would be a solid #4/#5 for the O's even in the AL East. Nice little article about his arsenal:

https://www.lookoutlanding.com/2017/5/31/15720524/ariel-miranda-contact-manager-splitter-slider

He reminds me a lot of Miguel Gonzalez...only left handed. 

With the O's:

Gonzo: 6.5 SO/9, 2.9 BB/9, 8.6 H/9, 4.70 FIP, 3.82 ERA

Compare to Miranda: 6.8 SO/9, 3.0 BB/9, 7.2 H/9, 5.18 FIP, 3.84 ERA

Basically a guy that is going to outperform his peripherals. Probably by inducing weak contact.

[esmd]

So putting aside the crying over spilled milk, what do they do with Miley?  I don't think he has any trade value, so it seems like he pitches through the remainder of the season, and they either pick up the option, or don't and he becomes a FA.

On the face of it, declining the option seems like a no brainer, given him recent performance and the cost.  That said, look at the cost of even mediocre pitching these days.  I think 12 million is a poor value for Miley, but who else are you going to get that's better, and what would they cost?  I'd like to see them make a run at signing Alex Cobb and/or Jeremy Hellickson, and I could see both of them being paid way more than 12M, especially Cobb.

At this point, you're looking at at least two holes in your rotation next year with Jimenez and Tillman likely departing.  Maybe they bring back Tillman on the cheap for a 1yr deal, but with his shoulder issues, I think you have to look at him as depth at this point, and not count on him to be one of your starting five.  Picking up Miley's option might be an (expensive) insurance policy to protect them against missing out on FAs to fill the holes in the rotation.

 

[Moose Milligan]

When you look at the teams that have given up on Miley, it's shocking that we'd give him a chance.  Well, maybe not  shocking that we'd give a pitcher with a pulse a chance but....

I'm sure Boston chortled when we signed him, though.  

[Cumberbundy]

On July 4, 2017 at 8:17 AM, eddie83 said:

This is ridiculous. Ubaldo had a great outing his last time out. The idea that DD has flushed a bunch of talent away is a joke. 

Incorrect.