Is Duquette Serious?

[Tx Oriole]

22 minutes ago, 24fps said:

If the owner believes that it is his duty to the fans to field the best possible team each year - obviously within budget limitations - then the whole notion of a strategic rebuild is automatically removed from consideration except in the direst situation.  I believe this is close to what's going on.  It took a decade of futility before MacPhail was allowed to even start down that road and then in only a half-assed way.  The Orioles have been a very good team over the last five years, and they aren't even close to being eliminated at this point.  They've provided an acceptible return on investment up until this season.  They go 8-2 over the next ten games and the world looks very different.

I see the weaknesses and so does most everybody else who posts here.  DD probably does too, but I think his hands are tied.  No point in beating on Dan about this, he's not a dead horse.  He's just required to act like one 40 hours a week these days.

I can agree with that. I guess DD is an easy target for me. Maybe that's not right. I get really frustrated with the goings on.

 

[24fps]

1 minute ago, Tx Oriole said:

I can agree with that. I guess DD is an easy target for me. Maybe that's not right. I get really frustrated with the goings on.

 

We all get frustrated.  DD is fair game for targeted criticism.  I think he deserves some of it and I have my list too.  I don't think he deserves to be the designated whipping boy every time the team loses two in a row and Ubaldo didn't pitch in either game.  Too many people need to put a single face on failure; a strange impulse when it's a team effort you're talking about.

[Rockford]

22 minutes ago, 24fps said:

If the owner believes that it is his duty to the fans to field the best possible team each year - obviously within budget limitations - then the whole notion of a strategic rebuild is automatically removed from consideration except in the direst situation.  I believe this is close to what's going on.  It took a decade of futility before MacPhail was allowed to even start down that road and then in only a half-assed way.  The Orioles have been a very good team over the last five years, and they aren't even close to being eliminated at this point.  They've provided an acceptible return on investment up until this season.  They go 8-2 over the next ten games and the world looks very different.

I see the weaknesses and so does most everybody else who posts here.  DD probably does too, but I think his hands are tied.  No point in beating on Dan about this, he's not a dead horse.  He's just required to act like one 40 hours a week these days.

I remember reading years ago Peter Angelos doesn't believe in "collapsed seasons." Sorry, don't have the link. I know people can change over time but somehow I doubt if he has on this topic. 

In fact, I wonder if he would ever OK a major trade that gave the Orioles only highly ranked prospects, none with major league experience.

It still seems to me it goes back to 1996 when then-GM Pat Gillick wanted to deal Bobby Bonilla and David Wells but Angelos stepped in and the Orioles ended up making the playoffs.

[Norfolk orioles]

2 hours ago, El Gordo said:

Non commital is not going to be read that way by the team. I know it doesn't look like it but they are actually still trying to win.

That's the saddest part of it all.

[OriolesMagic83]

As much as I want to blame DD, this is coming from Angelos.  He has always viewed the O's as a business.  It's just as important to have a winning season at the gate and the bottom line as it is to get to the playoffs or even the World Series.

[spiritof66]

8 minutes ago, Norfolk orioles said:

That's the saddest part of it all.

It must be awfully discouraging when you're trying to win -- not just win, but get on a roll to move toward contention -- and sending Miley out there every fifth day. 

 

[Legend_Of_Joey]

1 minute ago, spiritof66 said:

It must be awfully discouraging when you're trying to win -- not just win, but get on a roll to move toward contention -- and sending Miley out there every fifth day. 

 

Same deal with "flip a coin" Ubaldo.

[spiritof66]

1 minute ago, Legend_Of_Joey said:

Same deal with "flip a coin" Ubaldo.

I focused on Miley after some thought. With Ubaldo, his recent track record gives you a reasonable basis for hoping you'll get a well pitched game -- though that hope may be in tatters by the third inning. When you send Miley out there, I don't see any basis for hope. Sure he might pitch another good game sometime this season, but if he does it will be one hell of a surprise at this point. 

[bpilktree]

What does coming out in late June or July really matter.  The Royals GM said they were sellers in June.  Now a month later and they have made no moves and are one of best teams in league since they announced.  Yes today looked bad but the last 9 games coming into it we were 5-4 and were one strike away from 6-3 vs Rays and Jays.  

[gtman55]

We are -68 in run differential. Only four teams in MLB have a worse number. This team is going nowhere. There's nothing we're gonna buy at the trade deadline that will fix that.

We should be sellers and start rebuilding this club with some young talent. Unfortunately, Orioles management will probably give up some decent minor league talent to get some 35 year old washed up pitcher. 

[spiritof66]

I really doubt the Orioles will do much if any selling of assets on the 25-man roster (plus the DL) -- the owner won't allow it.

But let's say that a team with lots of young talent and a weakness at 3B wants to make a serious run at Machado, and it presents an enticing offer to the Orioles. It won't hurt, and it may help, for Duquette to respond by saying, "I know we're a few games out of the wild card, along with seven or eight others, but we think we can get there by adding a couple of starting pitchers. To that extent we see ourselves as buyers. We don't see ourselves as sellers of a big asset like Manny. Pursuing a trade for Manny depends on having our owner go in a direction he doesn't want to go in. If you want to turn that around, I think your best shot is to forget about the first baseman and the left fielder in your package and to give us the young starting pitching we need, like _____, ____ and ____."

While I doubt any of that will happen, it could.

[WVoriolesfan315]

Dan basically said during his in-game interview with Gary Thorne that everything will be fine. How does he know this? Well he said that he saw these same players perform at a high level in the past. So he knows they will again. Uhhh sports doesn't necessarily work that way Dan.

[El Gordo]

21 minutes ago, WVoriolesfan315 said:

Dan basically said during his in-game interview with Gary Thorne that everything will be fine. How does he know this? Well he said that he saw these same players perform at a high level in the past. So he knows they will again. Uhhh sports doesn't necessarily work that way Dan.

What would you have said? It's called positive spin. Do you watch the news they do it all the time. Lipstick on pigs. It's part of his job.

[panick]

17 minutes ago, WVoriolesfan315 said:

Dan basically said during his in-game interview with Gary Thorne that everything will be fine. How does he know this? Well he said that he saw these same players perform at a high level in the past. So he knows they will again. Uhhh sports doesn't necessarily work that way Dan.

Apparently Duquette has never seen the warning in a mutual fund prospectus - Past results are not a predictor of future performance.

If Angelos sees the team as a business, why wouldn't he understand that he could save money by trading expensive(or potentially expensive) players for some talented(but cheap) players?

There's also still the issue that has been brought up many times on this board. Does anyone really believe that Duquette could maximize the return if he traded away some of the O's? I wonder if AM is available to negotiate trades for the O's on a part-time basis. 

[24fps]

1 hour ago, Rockford said:

I remember reading years ago Peter Angelos doesn't believe in "collapsed seasons." Sorry, don't have the link. I know people can change over time but somehow I doubt if he has on this topic. 

In fact, I wonder if he would ever OK a major trade that gave the Orioles only highly ranked prospects, none with major league experience.

It still seems to me it goes back to 1996 when then-GM Pat Gillick wanted to deal Bobby Bonilla and David Wells but Angelos stepped in and the Orioles ended up making the playoffs.

I certainly believe that PA wouldn't allow a veterans-for-prospects trade this year.  Statistically the team is far from being eliminated and coming off a very good five years viewed collectively.  Secondly he is very old and hasn't seen a championship and rebuilding is heading in the wrong direction for him personally.  Thirdly, he doesn't seem to have the ability to let the baseball people make the baseball decisions without oversight.  The consequences of this tendency have been huge as we all know.  I think it may be a vice at this point that he's far too old to give up.

Fourthly and finally, I believe that PA truly feels he has an obligation to field the best team possible each year no "collapsed seasons" as you put it.  This should be greeted with applause and gratitude shouldn't it?  That it doesn't is both perverse and understandable IMO.  In the end, we're not only watching baseball but also a tragedy that PA's Greek ancestors would recognize and applaude even though we overly sophisicated baseball fans can't quite manage the same right now.