Manny

[mall-O-cup]

2 hours ago, birdwatcher55 said:

I don't think you will ever see it. He's a good player having a down year but not a superstar in my opinion.

He'll be lucky to be a good player unless he shows more patience and gets that swing corrected.

A long, loopy uppercut. No doubt he is great defensively but there are times he gets nonchalant with the glove.

I'm leaning toward moving him for the right package of players but I doubt that will happen.

[bpilktree]

2 hours ago, ORIOLE33 said:

Harper has had a weird career. He's had 3 average seasons. One bad season. And 2 MVP type seasons. 

Manny's been more steady, but has yet to have that phenomenal season.

Yeah but his average seasons were more cause of age then anything.  His first season he was just 19-21.  So he was playing in majors when age wise he should have been in A ball or AA.  The numbers he put up at 19 I would say was a good season because of that.

[Moose Milligan]

It's like people talking smack about Eddie Murray back in the mid 80s.  

[Moose Milligan]

I'm also willing to bet that this thread isn't started and these comments about Manny aren't made if this team is 12 games over .500 and leading the AL East.

Great player + having a bad season + mediocre team = whining and complaining and people seeing what they want to see when it comes to lack of hustle, effort, etc.

Great player + having a bad season + winning team = everyone's happy and no one cares who's having a bad season because the team is doing well, more patience for someone who is having a bad year 

[glenn__davis]

There certainly are some concerns about his hustle and habits at times, and his baserunning is still really questionable at times.

But the big secret in baseball is, sometimes good players have bad years.  Dallas Keuchel is one of the best pitchers in the game, and he had a very mediocre year last year.  And of course there are hundreds of other examples.  It's just how baseball works.

[webbrick2010]

17 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

It's like people talking smack about Eddie Murray back in the mid 80s.  

Eddie Murray never had a season nearly as bad as Manny is this year

Please stop comparing Manny to HOF'ers. He isn't even a top 10 third baseman in 2017

[Moose Milligan]

3 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

Eddie Murray never had a season nearly as bad as Manny is this year

Please stop comparing Manny to HOF'ers. He isn't even a top 10 third baseman in 2017

Well, that does it.  Wraps it all up.  Shows over, folks.  Book has been written about Manny Machado.  One bad season and he can never get better.  

Hey, I know.  A better comp would have been  like talking about Cal Ripken in 1990.  THERE.  I bet if the OH existed in 1990 there'd be a bunch of Dundalkers with mullets and tank tops talking about how we can't have a SS hitting .240 and that the team isn't as good as it was in 1989 because of him.  

 

[Frobby]

12 hours ago, birdwatcher55 said:

I don't think you will ever see it. He's a good player having a down year but not a superstar in my opinion.

Depends how you define superstar, I guess.   He was 5th in the AL position players in WAR in 2013 and 2015 and 7th last year.   I can't say I necessarily expect him ever to do better than that, but that's pretty damned good, and if you do it frequently enough, you're a superstar in my book.   Obviously, he has not played like a superstar in 2017.    

[Ohfan67]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

It's like people talking smack about Eddie Murray back in the mid 80s.  

I gave you rep for this and I have stood up for Manny in other threads, but the data goes both ways. People get frustrated that some fans have anointed Manny as a HOF'er already, but he's had a HOF type start to his career. Not many players are 24 and have been the top 10 MVP voting three times (top five twice). So there's lots of data saying that Manny is a very, very special player. But there's also data suggesting that Manny is very immature, very hot headed, and might struggle controlling emotions. Manny may have a nagging injury that really explains his poor hitting this year, but his past behavior does open the door for questions about him and how he might respond when things are not going his way. A lot of the Manny hating is way, way over the top, but I think Manny's past behavior should and will be included when teams think about investing in a 10 year or more contract with Manny...and his past behavior makes it reasonable to question his ability to handle things when they don't go his way. 

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

So there's lots of data saying that Manny is a very, very special player. But there's also data suggesting that Manny is very immature, very hot headed, and might struggle controlling emotions. Manny may have a nagging injury that really explains his poor hitting this year, but his past behavior does open the door for questions about him and how he might respond when things are not going his way. 

I tend to think a lot of that stuff is overblown.    People have high expectations for Manny, so when he disappoints them they tend to manufacture reasons relating to his attitude or whatever.     Players aren't metronomes, and sometimes they have disappointing seasons.

[Moose Milligan]

28 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

I gave you rep for this and I have stood up for Manny in other threads, but the data goes both ways. People get frustrated that some fans have anointed Manny as a HOF'er already, but he's had a HOF type start to his career. Not many players are 24 and have been the top 10 MVP voting three times (top five twice). So there's lots of data saying that Manny is a very, very special player. But there's also data suggesting that Manny is very immature, very hot headed, and might struggle controlling emotions. Manny may have a nagging injury that really explains his poor hitting this year, but his past behavior does open the door for questions about him and how he might respond when things are not going his way. A lot of the Manny hating is way, way over the top, but I think Manny's past behavior should and will be included when teams think about investing in a 10 year or more contract with Manny...and his past behavior makes it reasonable to question his ability to handle things when they don't go his way. 

Yup, I agree.

I'm assuming the people on here who get up in arms about immaturity and controlling emotions were making amazing life decisions at age 20-24.

[Ohfan67]

37 minutes ago, Frobby said:

, I tend to think a lot of that stuff is overblown.    People have high expectations for Manny, so when he disappoints them they tend to manufacture reasons relating to his attitude or whatever.     Players aren't metronomes, and sometimes they have disappointing seasons.

Cal and Eddie never "threw" a bat at a pitcher. I think it's fair to question Manny's maturity and professionalism based on known behavior, not innuendo and such. If Manny was a Blue Jay, Yankee or Red Sox I think we would see Manny very differently. 

[Ohfan67]

21 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Yup, I agree.

I'm assuming the people on here who get up in arms about immaturity and controlling emotions were making amazing life decisions at age 20-24.

And I'm sure many here paid the consequences. And I think an organization can ask for very high standards when investing many millions in a person. 

[jtschrei]

Manny is indeed a great player. You know it when you see it. His WAR when he's healthy backs it up.

I am utterly confused about his approach this year. It's true that he is just giving away at bats waaaaay too frequently. He did this a little bit last year too, but it is more noticeable this year because he's hitting .220. I keep waiting for him to snap out of it. I'm expecting a big second half. 

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

Cal and Eddie never "threw" a bat at a pitcher. I think it's fair to question Manny's maturity and professionalism based on known behavior, not innuendo and such. If Manny was a Blue Jay, Yankee or Red Sox I think we would see Manny very differently. 

I'm simply disputing that there's a connection between Manny's current offensive struggles and any immaturity or attitude issues.    I'm not condoning or excusing Manny's bat-throwing incident or his questionable decision to charge Yordano Ventura when he plunked Manny last year.