No excuses now

[Hooded Viper]

It appears Jordan met with Angelos and MacPhail this morning to do just that...

http://www.forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1347152&postcount=1

Tony OH, I respectfully disagree with this. I don't think you draft based upon free agency. This isn't the NFL and there are absolutely no guarantees the O's get Tex anyway.

[DrungoHazewood]

You can live with a weak bat at SS. You can't live with a weak bat at 1B. The Orioles are proof of that...

The 2006 Tigers had first base covered by Chris Shelton (OPS+ of 106), then benched him and played Sean Casey (OPS+ of 67).

The 2002 Angels had Scott Spezio and his .436 slugging percentage at first.

The '01 Diamondbacks had 37-year-old Mark Grace and his 15 homers at first.

Todd Zeile was a league-average first baseman for the '00 Mets.

The 1998 Padres got 12 homers out of their first baseman, 36-year-old Wally Joyner.

The '97 Marlins' first baseman had a 98 OPS+. That was Jeff Conine.

Broken down old Sid Bream played first for the 1992 Braves. He hit .261 with 12 homers. He was basically the same player for the 1991 Braves.

The 1990 Reds' first baseman was Todd Benzinger. He of the .251/.291/.340 line.

The 1988 Dodgers' first baseman was Franklin Stubbs. He was pretty cool since he went to college at Virginia Tech, but that summer he hit .223/.288/.376.

What is the common thread connecting all of these teams and players, besides their adequate-at-best first basemen? They all played in the World Series that year.

[BoysofArbutus]

Good thing the 2008 season ends tomorrow, isn't it?

He's not worth that amount of money, but we don't have anyone in the minors outside of Wieters that can has the potential to produce 30 homers. Markakis at his peak MIGHT be a 35 homerun guy. Time will tell.

Passing on Smoak would have given us a legit minor league bat who would be close to contributing.

Now we have to make a run at Tex to get a 1B big bat...who would you have rather had, Smoak for cheap comparitively or overpay for Tex?

Now do you understand why it was important to draft Smoak?

I'm not arguing that Smoak wasn't the better pick. People accuse me of twisting words, but this is just putting words in my mouth.

I was a strong advocate of Smoak, followed by Gordon Beckham and some sort of power hitter over Matusz. My point of criticism is that I would never pay Tex $25 million or more as JTrea is stating. Tex is a very good hitter, one of the best first basemen in the game, but he is not worth anywhere near equivalent dollars that A-Rod and Manny receive.

Let's give a 2-3-4 of Adam Jones, Nick Markakis, Matt Weiters in 2010 a shot.

[Frobby]

The over reactions on this board are amazing. Tex is hardly a "must sign" and the idea that you'd give him A-Rod money is even more asanine.

Tex's 2008 numbers:

BA .272, 9 HRs, 42 RBIs, .360 OBP, 15 Dbls, 30 BBs, 33 Ks

Since his superstar 2005 season that saw him blast 43 HRs in the hitter-friendly confines of Arlington, TX, he's hit 33 home runs in 2006 and 30 in 2007. Throught 58 games, he's on pace to hit another 30 this year. Are these A-Rod numbers? Are these $25 mil + numbers? Not in the least. If Tex doesn't want to come here for between 17-20, then he can go elsewhere.

I agree Tex is not a must-sign. But who is saying he's going to get A-Rod money? Of course he isn't. However, he will get (at least) Giambi money, I suspect - possibluy from the team that's now done with Giambi. If the O's want Tex that have to be prepared to go at least that high.

[Sports Guy]

Tony OH, I respectfully disagree with this. I don't think you draft based upon free agency. This isn't the NFL and there are absolutely no guarantees the O's get Tex anyway.

No one has said this is smart or what they should do.

[Moose Milligan]

Tony OH, I respectfully disagree with this. I don't think you draft based upon free agency. This isn't the NFL and there are absolutely no guarantees the O's get Tex anyway.

Tony has better sources than you do

But your 2nd sentence is exactly why we should have selected Smoak.

I continue to say it but I don't think you guys get how much PA wants Tex here.

No, I believe it.

I just say there are too many variables outside PA's desire and pockets to land him here. It's not a layup by any stretch of the imagination.

[BoysofArbutus]

I agree Tex is not a must-sign. But who is saying he's going to get A-Rod money? Of course he isn't. However, he will get (at least) Giambi money, I suspect - possibluy from the team that's now done with Giambi. If the O's want Tex that have to be prepared to go at least that high.

JTrea said in the first post of this thread that they should be ready to go 25+ if necessary and give him the biggest contract next to A-Rod if they want to get him. That would be absurd. High teens I think should be our limit. The Birds have a lot of money with MASN now adding to the revenue, but their funds are still limited and committing that kind of cash for 30-35 bombs a season isn't worth it.

[JTrea81]

Tony has better sources than you do

But your 2nd sentence is exactly why we should have selected Smoak.

No, I believe it.

I just say there are too many variables outside PA's desire and pockets to land him here. It's not a layup by any stretch of the imagination.

And the problem is the Orioles are convinced it is. Unless they've got some under the table agreement with him which could be very possible, they are making a mistake with this thinking. MacPhail's lack of being able to multi-task doesn't bode well for a Plan B if Tex does fall through.

Kevin Millar could very well be the Opening Day 1B man in 2009...

[Moose Milligan]

The 1990 Reds' first baseman was Todd Benzinger. He of the .251/.291/.340 line.

I'm repping you for the Benzinger reference. This guy always cracked me up.

I'm not arguing that Smoak wasn't the better pick. People accuse me of twisting words, but this is just putting words in my mouth.

I was a strong advocate of Smoak, followed by Gordon Beckham and some sort of power hitter over Matusz. My point of criticism is that I would never pay Tex $25 million or more as JTrea is stating. Tex is a very good hitter, one of the best first basemen in the game, but he is not worth anywhere near equivalent dollars that A-Rod and Manny receive.

Let's give a 2-3-4 of Adam Jones, Nick Markakis, Matt Weiters in 2010 a shot.

I agree that Tex isn't worth that and time will tell if he gets that deal or not.

Smoak was the much better pick here. a 2-3-4-5 of AJ, Markakis, Wieters and Smoak would be much better

[Mackus]

If the O's trade Cabrera at this year's deadline for two AAA bats that appear close to MLB-ready and could be impact players, would that change your opinion of the pick?

My first impression after picking Matusz is that this allows them to trade MLB pitching even easier.

I think Cabrera's days are numbered. I don't like seeing him go, but I think they can get a ton for him, and get something that will be more valuable than his contributions would be over the next few years.

[BoysofArbutus]

Smoak was the much better pick here. a 2-3-4-5 of AJ, Markakis, Wieters and Smoak would be much better

100 percent agreement on that

[nadecir]

And the problem is the Orioles are convinced it is. Unless they've got some under the table agreement with him which could be very possible, they are making a mistake with this thinking. MacPhail's lack of being able to multi-task doesn't bode well for a Plan B if Tex does fall through.

Kevin Millar could very well be the Opening Day 1B man in 2009...

Unless Angelos is a lunatic, there is no way he has an under the table agreement with anybody concerning Teixeira. The Orioles can't even have any discussions that indicate we are going to make a offer for Tex with anyone.

If tampering with Teixeira does happen, it is bound to come out. And there is going to be a lot of folks in very hot water, including Boras and anyone in the Orioles organization involved in tampering with Teixeira. Do you really think Boras wants to risk being suspended from doing business in baseball for a while by doing something against league rules like this?

[JTrea81]

If the O's trade Cabrera at this year's deadline for two AAA bats that appear close to MLB-ready and could be impact players, would that change your opinion of the pick?

My first impression after picking Matusz is that this allows them to trade MLB pitching even easier.

I think Cabrera's days are numbered. I don't like seeing him go, but I think they can get a ton for him, and get something that will be more valuable than his contributions would be over the next few years.

What was stopping MacPhail from doing it in the offseason? I don't see how Matusz would cause us to deal pitching. He could always get hurt. MacPhail is just obsessed with getting as much SP as possible. Maybe he's paranoid from what happened to Wood and Prior...

[Mark Carver]

If the O's trade Cabrera at this year's deadline for two AAA bats that appear close to MLB-ready and could be impact players, would that change your opinion of the pick?

My first impression after picking Matusz is that this allows them to trade MLB pitching even easier.

I think Cabrera's days are numbered. I don't like seeing him go, but I think they can get a ton for him, and get something that will be more valuable than his contributions would be over the next few years.

What was stopping MacPhail from doing it in the offseason? I don't see how Matusz would cause us to deal pitching. He could always get hurt. MacPhail is just obsessed with getting as much SP as possible. Maybe he's paranoid from what happened to Wood and Prior...

The Orioles did trade ML pitching this past off-season. They traded their best ML pitcher. The rest of the crop was suspect. Now that the season has come about and it looks like a few of the suspect have turned things around, now they are tradeable.

[PoorMike]

Several theories on drafting have been stated the past few days, that I also believe in:

1) draft the best player, regardless of position, because you never know what the future holds

2) if all else is equal, draft "up the middle" (ie: pitcher, SS, CF)

3) it's easier to get the good hitter to hit for power than the power hitter to make contact

I think if the O's thought a 1b was the best layer, they would have taken him and then worried about what to do with him and Teix later. Smoak didn't go until 11.