The 100 Most Significant Dates in Modern Orioles History

[OFFNY]

1 hour ago, OFFNY said:

o

 

The NY Daily News arranged for Maier to have free box seat tickets to the very next game of that ALCS (Game Two.) That day, the commentators on WFAN in New York got his father on the phone. To their credit, Mike and the Mad Dog both confronted Maier's father about accepting free box seat tickets to a playoff game for his kid as a "reward" for behavior that would otherwise get you ejected from the game.

 

They asked him, "Mr. Maier, don't you think that it's wrong for your kid to be rewarded for interfering with a crucial play in a post-season game?" 

Mr. Maier responded by saying, "Why can't my kid go to the game ???" 

Francesca and Russo didn't let his lame answer/excuse get him off the hook. They kept at him: "Mr. Maier, that isn't the point. Your kid can go to the game like everyone else, but why should he be rewarded with free box seat tickets for interfering with a play? Other parents' kids should be able to go to the game. They didn't do anything wrong. Why shouldn't they get free tickets? You're his parent. What exactly are you teaching your kid by accepting this "reward" for interfering with a play in a post-season game?" 

Mr. Maier simply repeated his nonsensical "Why can't my kid go to the game?"

 

Not only did Mr. Maier essentially condone what his kid did, he didn't even have the courage to come out and admit it when confronted on the air. To me, he was/is even more of a weasel than was/is his kid.

 

o

 

 

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

 

I don't disagree with that.

But it's gotta be really hard to be a parent in that situation.  Your kid is all of a sudden getting a ton of media attention in the span of a few hours, the Yankees are throwing free stuff at you and your kid.  I mean, it's HARD to be a parent on the national stage like that.

I don't think that kid intentionally knew what he was doing, I don't think he had any malicious intent.  I mean, reverse the roles if that was you or any one of us in the first row in LF with a glove and Ripken hit one right at me....I'd be fighting like hell to catch it.  I might reach over the fence in a really exciting moment, not totally aware of my actions.  A home run ball from my all time favorite player in a playoff game?  You gotta be kidding me.

I hate Maier cause....well, it victimized my team.  But being a 12 year old kid trying to catch a home run ball, I get it.

Anyway, if I'm the dad in that situation....I'd have a long sit down with my kid, tell him what he did was wrong, don't do it again.  Have some awareness about a situation like that, don't interfere with balls in play....

...but let's enjoy all this free stuff we're getting here for a few days.  

That sends a mixed message, to be sure.  But life ain't perfect.

 

o

 

For myself, that would be the worst possible mixed message to send to a kid, and it has nothing to do with whether or not life is perfect. That line is an excuse to throw out the proverbial rule book when it suits ourselves. Life isn't perfect, but that doesn't mean that we (at-large) should not try to make it as fair as possible when we can.

If I were his father, I would tell the kid that he made a mistake which is OK, but I would also tell him that he certainly is not going to be rewarded for something that would otherwise have gotten him ejected from the stadium. The excitement of going to one game (even a playoff game) is not worth the loss of integrity of accepting those free "reward" tickets, as I see it. It can be argued that the kid did what he did spontaneously and without premeditation on that fly ball that was ruled a home run. It cannot be argued that the father ........ who time to think about what happened after the fact (not to mention the fact that he is the adult and presumably the role model in all of this) ....... did.

 

o

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, OFFNY said:

 

 

o

 

For myself, that would be the worst possible mixed message to send to a kid, and it has nothing to do with whether or not life is perfect. That line is an excuse to throw out the proverbial rule book when it suits ourselves. Life isn't perfect, but that doesn't mean that we (at-large) should not try to make it as fair as possible when we can.

If I were his father, I would tell the kid that he made a mistake which is OK, but I would also tell him that he certainly is not going to be rewarded for something that would otherwise have gotten him ejected from the stadium. The excitement of going to one game (even a playoff game) is not worth the loss of integrity of accepting those free "reward" tickets, as I see it. It can be argued that the kid did what he did spontaneously and without premeditation on that fly ball that was ruled a home run. It cannot be argued that the father ........ who time to think about what happened after the fact (not to mention the fact that he is the adult and presumably the role model in all of this) ....... did.

 

o

First of all, I’m sure the kid wasn’t intentionally interfering with the play.    He was 10 — see ball, catch ball.

Second of all, the umpire ruled that he hadn’t interfered.    So if somebody offers him free tickets, so be it.   I wouldn’t deny the kid his day in the sun.    

[OFFNY]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

 

First of all, I’m sure the kid wasn’t intentionally interfering with the play.    He was 10 — see ball, catch ball.

Second of all, the umpire ruled that he hadn’t interfered.    So if somebody offers him free tickets, so be it. I wouldn’t deny the kid his day in the sun.    

 

o

 

He was 12 (a month shy of being 13), not 10.

More significantly, the article in which Moose Milligan revived the issue asserted that 5 years later Maier wound up being a 17 year-old obnoxious, bully counselor to 12 year-olds, and he nearly crapped his pants when he thought that one of them was going to call his bluff when Tony Tarasco came to their camp.

 

I stand by my position in regard to the "reward" of free tickets. The kid didn't deserve a day in the sun for interfering with a ball, and his father showed no character in accepting those tickets, so I'm not particularly surprised that he later wound up being the 17 year-old creep that he was as a camp counselor 5 years after the fact.

 

I disagree with a lot of what Mike Francesca and Mike Russo have stated over the years, but they were spot on when they confronted his father the next day and exposed him. Francesca is a die-hard Yankee fan and he had a problem with it, and I would feel the same way if it were an Oriole fan that did the same.

I got over what happened the very next day, when the Orioles won Game 2 behind David Wells' pitching and Rafael Palmeiro's 2-run home run. Sometimes horrible calls are a part of the game, and the Orioles had an entire series to make up for it, which they didn't. I'm not reacting to the game's outcome or the incident that played a big part in it, but rather to the combination of the article that Milligan pulled about the person that he apparently grew into when he a 17 year-old counselor and the circumstances that occurred the day after the game.

 

o

[Frobby]

35 minutes ago, OFFNY said:

o

 

He was 12 (a month shy of being 13), not 10.

More significantly, the article in which Mosse Milligan revived the issue asserted that 5 years later Maier wound up being a 17 year-old obnoxious, bully counselor to 12 year-olds, and he nearly crapped his pants when he thought that one of them was going to call his bluff when Tony Tarasco came to their camp.

 

I stand by my position in regard to the "reward" of free tickets. The kid didn't deserve a "day in the sun" for interfering with a ball, and his father showed no character in accepting those tickets, so I'm not particularly surprised that he later wound up being the 17 year-old creep that he was as a camp counselor 5 years after the fact.

 

I disagree with a lot of what Mike Francesca and Mike Russo have stated over the years, but they were spot on when they confronted his father the next day and exposed him. Francesca is a die-hard Yankee fan and he had a problem with it, and I would feel the same way if it were an Oriole fan that did the same.

I got over what happened the very next day, when the Orioles won Game 2 behind David Wells' pitching and Rafael Palmeiro's 2-run home run. Sometimes horrible calls are a part of the game, and the Orioles had an entire series to make up for it, which they didn't. I'm not reacting to the game's outcome or the incident that played a big part in it, but rather to the combination of the article that Milligan pulled about the person that he apparently grew into when he a 17 year-old counselor and the circumstances that occurred the day after the game.

 

o

Rather than prolong this debate, I will just say that I’m a generous judge of people, that I don’t remember the story of Maier as a 17-year old, and that even if I did, I wouldn’t be comfortable judging what kind of person Maier has turned out to be based on that account.    

[foxfield]

5 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Rather than prolong this debate, I will just say that I’m a generous judge of people, that I don’t remember the story of Maier as a 17-year old, and that even if I did, I wouldn’t be comfortable judging what kind of person Maier has turned out to be based on that account.    

I agree with this.  I cannot pass judgement on him based on an account of something he did at 17 that I cannot see.  Of course, I would have shot him for his crime as a 12 year old, and while I do have sufficient evidence of that crime, I am most assuredly not an unbiased jury of his peers.

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, OFFNY said:

o

 

He was 12 (a month shy of being 13), not 10.

More significantly, the article in which Moose Milligan revived the issue asserted that 5 years later Maier wound up being a 17 year-old obnoxious, bully counselor to 12 year-olds, and he nearly crapped his pants when he thought that one of them was going to call his bluff when Tony Tarasco came to their camp.

 

I stand by my position in regard to the "reward" of free tickets. The kid didn't deserve a day in the sun for interfering with a ball, and his father showed no character in accepting those tickets, so I'm not particularly surprised that he later wound up being the 17 year-old creep that he was as a camp counselor 5 years after the fact.

 

I disagree with a lot of what Mike Francesca and Mike Russo have stated over the years, but they were spot on when they confronted his father the next day and exposed him. Francesca is a die-hard Yankee fan and he had a problem with it, and I would feel the same way if it were an Oriole fan that did the same.

I got over what happened the very next day, when the Orioles won Game 2 behind David Wells' pitching and Rafael Palmeiro's 2-run home run. Sometimes horrible calls are a part of the game, and the Orioles had an entire series to make up for it, which they didn't. I'm not reacting to the game's outcome or the incident that played a big part in it, but rather to the combination of the article that Milligan pulled about the person that he apparently grew into when he a 17 year-old counselor and the circumstances that occurred the day after the game.

 

o

Yeah, but he's also turned into, by all accounts, a decent dude.  He's actually on Linkedin, I looked him up earlier.  I just thought that article was a funny read.  Let's not judge everyone at 17.

You are correct though, the Orioles knotted the series the next day and could have made up for it.  People seem to like to believe that the series was lost there, far from it.  The Orioles still could have won that series, for sure.

[Number5]

3 hours ago, Frobby said:

First of all, I’m sure the kid wasn’t intentionally interfering with the play.    He was 10 — see ball, catch ball.

Second of all, the umpire ruled that he hadn’t interfered.    So if somebody offers him free tickets, so be it.   I wouldn’t deny the kid his day in the sun.    

Frobby, intent has nothing to do with it.  If a fan reaches onto the field and touches a ball in play, it is interference, period. 

I don't blame the 12 year old boy for doing something that came naturally.  The umpire's actions, however were inexcusable.  Garcia's position at the wall made it virtually impossible for him to not see the fans arms and glove extending over the wall, out into the field of play and interfere on the play.  It shouldn't have happened, IMO, since he should have been fired years earlier over his gambling indebtedness. 

That Garcia received a slap on the wrist for having illegal gambling debts at the very same time that Pete Rose was being banned for life is disgusting.  A black eye for baseball. 

That the call was amazingly bad and particularly difficult to comprehend given Garcia's positioning on the play, which made the "just didn't see it" excuse extremely hard to believe.  Was he given "marching orders" by someone he owed money to?  Who knows, but the horrible call was, indeed, made.  The very reason that I believe that any game official in any sport should be dismissed when found to have illegal gambling indebtedness is it certainly brings the possibility of the official being influenced to lean a certain way, when possible, on certain plays into question.  Impossible to maintain the look of being completely impartial.

Garcia was, inexplicably, later made a supervisor of umpires.  As it turned out, he was eventually fired from his supervisory post in conjunction with numerous poor calls in the 2010 post season.  The full story of why he, as supervisor, was fired over poor calls by field umpires under him was never fully explained.  It took some 15 years or more for Garcia's gambling issues and probation to be made public, so maybe we'll find out what happened in 2010 around 2025 or so. 

Am I bitter about this?  You bet!

[SteveA]

Yeah, even 2 decades later this one still gets the emotions roiling.

On the bright side... after another negative memory tomorrow, we have a top 20 with only one pure negative (and one other that most folks will view as a negative).   Lots of happiness in the last 20 on the list.   And the Hokies stomped the Tarheels tonight so I'm a happy camper.   And I get to go back to work tomorrow after an involuntary day off today.

[Moshagge3]

I hadn't heard the story about Garcia having gambling debts, but come on. The odds of the right-field umpire being in a position to impact the outcome of a game are a thousand to one. The idea that the gambling underworld would care about having an outfield ump in their pocket is insane to me.

[Number5]

1 hour ago, Moshagge3 said:

I hadn't heard the story about Garcia having gambling debts, but come on. The odds of the right-field umpire being in a position to impact the outcome of a game are a thousand to one. The idea that the gambling underworld would care about having an outfield ump in their pocket is insane to me.

Apparently you are under the impression that each umpire stays in one spot for the entire series.  That, of course, is incorrect.  If you cannot see how an umpire can impact the outcome of a game, I don't know what to tell you.

[Moshagge3]

1 hour ago, Number5 said:

Apparently you are under the impression that each umpire stays in one spot for the entire series.  That, of course, is incorrect.  If you cannot see how an umpire can impact the outcome of a game, I don't know what to tell you.

So why aren't we talking about the calls Garcia made the rest of the series when he was in much more meaningful roles in the infield?

[Number5]

Just now, Moshagge3 said:

So why aren't we talking about the calls Garcia made the rest of the series when he was in much more meaningful roles in the infield?

Good grief.  Have you seen the play?  Garcia was looking straight up at it.  The interference was unquestionable.  By rule, if in the umpires judgment, the outfielder had a play at catching the ball, it is an out.  Had he called it a ground rule double, ruling that Tarasco could not have caught the ball, it would have been a bad call, IMO, but at least it would have been a believable miss.  Calling it a home run is virtually impossible from where he was, as he simply could not miss the arms extending over the wall.  Such a play during the regular season could be missed, because the second base umpire doesn't have the conclusive angle that Garcia had.

Again, who knows why he made the ridiculous call, but trying to convince anyone that he didn't see the arms extended out over the field of play is pure folly.  He was standing right there at the wall.  My point is that Rich Garcia should have been fired years earlier for his known gambling and indebtedness to illegal bookmakers.  Then there would be no question of impropriety.  With his history, and his positioning on the play, yes, there very much is a question.

[SteveA]

It's 21 days until pitchers and catchers report.   Here is the 21st most significant date in modern Orioles history:

#21 October 15, 1997

The 1997 Orioles went wire to wire in first place.  That means they were in first place in the AL East, or tied for first, every single day of the season starting on Opening Day.  They were only the 6th team in baseball history to pull off the "wire-to-wire" first place feat.

The Orioles faced the Seattle Mariners in the AL Divisional series. In Game 1 in Seattle, Mike Mussina defeated Randy Johnson 9-3.  The Orioles won by an identical score in teh 2nd game, as Brady Anderson and Harold Baines homered to help Scott Erickson debeat Jamie Moyer.

Back in Baltimore, the Mariners staved off elimination with a 4-2 win, but Baltimore took the series in game 4 as Mussina beat Johnson once again, 3-1.

That set up an American League championship series between the Orioles and the Indians, a year after the Orioles had a tough ALCS loss to the Yankees.

In the first game in Baltimore, Scott Erickson had 9 shutout innings and the Orioles won 3-0.  In Game 2, the Orioles took a 4-2 lead into the 8th but Marquis Grissom hit a 3-run homer off Armando Benitez to give Cleveland a 5-4 win.  

The series moved to Cleveland, where Oriole ace Mike Mussina and veteran star Orel Hershiser ahd an epic battle.  The game was scoreless into the 7th but Cleveland got a run.  In the top of the 9th, the Orioles managed tot ie it up.  Mussina set an all time LCS record with 15 strikeouts in a no-decision as the game went into extra innings.   In the bottom of the 12th, Marquis Grissom walked, and Tony Fernandez singled him to 3rd.  Omar Vizquel tried to bunt but missed the ball, and it got past Oriole catcher Lenny Webster for a passed ball and Grissom scored and Cleveland won 2-1.  (The Orioles felt the ball was fouled off but the ump disagreed).

In game 4, the Orioles suffered their third consecutive hearbreaking loss.  They led 5-2 early but Cleveland came back to take the lead on a rare 2-run wild pitch by Arthur Rhodes, as Sandy Alomar raced in from 2nd after a wild pitch had allowed David Justice to score from 3rd, and Justice collided with Rhodes from the plate and Webster couldn't locate the ball as plate ump Durwood Merrill was in the way.   THe Orioles did come back to tie the game in the top of the 9th off Cleveland closer Jose Mesa, but Sandy Alomar won it in the bottom of the 9th with an RBI single to give Cleveland a 3-1 series lead.

The Orioles kept the series alive and sent it back to Baltimore with a 4-2 win in game 5.

Game 6, on October 15, 1997, was a fantastic pitching duel between Mussina and Charles Nagy.  Neither team scored in regulation.   Mike Mussina had 8 1-hit shutout innings, striking out 10, as he had one of the most spectacular postseason runs of any pitcher in history.   The Orioles had 9 hits vs Nagy in 7.1 innings but couldn't plate a run, as Raffy Palmeiro and other key Orioles hitters constantly stranded men on base.

In the top of the 11th, off Oriole closer Armando Benitez, Tony Fernandez of the Indians came to the plate.  He launched a fly ball onto the flag court in right field, where temporary postseason bleachers were set up, that landed about 10 feet from where I was sitting, to give Cleveland a 1-0 lead.  Indian closer Jose Mesa gave up a hit to Brady Anderson in the bottom of the 11th, but Roberto Alomar was called out on strikes to end the game.

Cleveland won 1-0 and took the series 4 games to 2.  What was probably the best Oriole team in the last 37 years had their season end in bitter disappointment.  As the sellout crowd (listed at 49,075, biggest in OPACY history) filed out, what we didn't know is that the Orioles would go another 15 years before making the post season, and, in fact, would go that long without even having a winning season.  Manager Davey Johnson would be gone 3 weeks later, and the Oriole franchise would go into an a horrible 14 year tailspin.  That Wednesday afternoon in Baltimore would be the last postseason game for a long, long time.  Mike Mussina, who pitched heroically in the postseason even though the Orioles lost both his ALCS starts in extra innings, would see postseason action again only in pinstripes.

 

[Frobby]

Moose was amazing that postseason.    That final game, which I attended, was so frustrating.   

1st inning: two walks and a single, didn’t score.

2nd inning: single and a double, didn’t score.

4th inning: leadoff double, didn’t score.

7th inning: 1st and 2nd, nobody out, didn’t score.

Besides those opportunities, they had at least one baserunner in every inning except the 6th.

[Moose Milligan]

I was there.  Sitting on the first base side, that ball Tony Fernandez hit passed right in front of me.  It was one of the weakest homers I'd ever seen.  I mean, it had to be traveling at a cruising altitude of about 55 mph, it looked like.  It was so slow and it just kept going...