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Manny for Torres straight up?

fansince71

By fansince71
in Orioles Talk

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Luke-OH Hangout Grand Counsel

Luke-OH

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3 minutes ago, fansince71 said:

http://www.nj.com/yankees/index.ssf/2017/11/mlb_trade_rumors_could_yankees_land_orioles_manny.html

If he is fully healthy (can pass the physical), I don't see how the Orioles can turn that down.  Maybe seek an additional lower level arm like Jonathan Loaisiga as well and pay a little of Manny's salary if needed.

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Luke-OH Hangout Grand Counsel

Luke-OH

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7 minutes ago, oriole said:

I'll bet my entire Pokemon card collection that the Orioles won't trade Manny within the division with the Yankees being the least likely.

Maybe not, but that's not exactly smart.  The Yankees will have a similar chance to sign Manny next year whether or not they acquire him this year, this way the Orioles would get to take future impact talent from the Yankees.

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Redskins Rick Hangout Grand Counsel

Redskins Rick

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3 minutes ago, phillyOs119 said:

Maybe not, but that's not exactly smart.  The Yankees will have a similar chance to sign Manny next year whether or not they acquire him this year, this way the Orioles would get to take future impact talent from the Yankees.

Cashman is not trading Torres for Many, IMO.

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Luke-OH Hangout Grand Counsel

Luke-OH

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3 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

Cashman is not trading Torres for Many, IMO.

I agree, I wouldn't think he'd give up that much.  I was just addressing the rumor, that's why I said "I don't see how the Orioles could turn that down".  The adding Loaisiga in exchange for some salary relief would just be buying a pitching prospect and making the deal look better to people who don't know who Gleyber Torres is.

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Tx Oriole Hangout Grand Counsel

Tx Oriole

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59 minutes ago, phillyOs119 said:

Maybe not, but that's not exactly smart.  The Yankees will have a similar chance to sign Manny next year whether or not they acquire him this year, this way the Orioles would get to take future impact talent from the Yankees.

Angelos would never trade with the Yankees. 

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Luke-OH Hangout Grand Counsel

Luke-OH

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2 minutes ago, Tx Oriole said:

Angelos would never trade with the Yankees. 

I didn't say he would, I'm just saying if the Yankees were dumb enough to offer Torres, it would be dumb to turn it down.  

Honestly having a blanket policy on anything (other than maybe violent misconduct) as an owner, manager, or GM is dumb.

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24fps Hangout Grand Counsel

24fps

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1 hour ago, phillyOs119 said:

I agree, I wouldn't think he'd give up that much.  I was just addressing the rumor, that's why I said "I don't see how the Orioles could turn that down".  The adding Loaisiga in exchange for some salary relief would just be buying a pitching prospect and making the deal look better to people who don't know who Gleyber Torres is.

Who is Gleyber Torres?  If I look at him with my left eye closed he's Baseball America's #3 2017 mid-season prospect - highly thought of by every "expert" who's experessed an opinion.  If I look at him with my right eye closed, he's a minor league utility infielder who's never played a day in the major leagues and is seriously injured, perhaps partially from the weight of all the hype he's had to carry around.  In other words he's a risk and potentially a sizeable one.  When I look at Manny Machado (who I support trading this offseason in the right deal) I see a perennial All-Star who very likely is headed to the HOF 20 years down the road.  In other words someone whose value is established and would be very, very desirable to have on the Baltimore Orioles in 2018.

Why trade Manny Machado at all?  The only reason is to extract more value now than he would provide to the Orioles on the field in 2018, within the boundaries of acceptable risk.  Remember the Orioles are not rebuilding.  Machado for Torres is a deal that only makes sense to people who live in stark terror of the Orioles not "getting anything" once the Orioles' control over him ends.  This is a terrible basis to make a trade.

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Luke-OH Hangout Grand Counsel

Luke-OH

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4 minutes ago, 24fps said:

Who is Gleyber Torres?  If I look at him with my left eye closed he's Baseball America's #3 2017 mid-season prospect - highly thought of by every "expert" who's experessed an opinion.  If I look at him with my right eye closed, he's a minor league utility infielder who's never played a day in the major leagues and is seriously injured, perhaps partially from the weight of all the hype he's had to carry around.  In other words he's a risk and potentially a sizeable one.  When I look at Manny Machado (who I support trading this offseason in the right deal) I see a perennial All-Star who very likely is headed to the HOF 20 years down the road.  In other words someone whose value is established and would be very, very desirable to have on the Baltimore Orioles in 2018.

Why trade Manny Machado at all?  The only reason is to extract more value now than he would provide to the Orioles on the field in 2018, within the boundaries of acceptable risk.  Remember the Orioles are not rebuilding.  Machado for Torres is a deal that only makes sense to people who live in stark terror of the Orioles not "getting anything" once the Orioles' control over him ends.  This is a terrible basis to make a trade.

His injury is a TJS on his non-throwing arm, it's only serious in that it caused him to miss time.  

While I'd argue that the term "stark terror" is a bit hyperbolic, I am concerned that the Orioles are acting in ways that aren't beneficial to the future of the team.  I'm not old enough to have seen the Orioles golden years, the majority of my years of fandom were during the 1998-2011 dark ages.  I see the risk of falling back to those times if the team doesn't seek to make smart moves for the future rather than trying to artificially extend a window that has already perhaps closed.

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