Pantient Rebuilt - Aggressive Reload

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, Three Run Homer said:

I find it sad that Roch can't even imagine the O's being serious players for Darvish or Arietta.  I'm not saying that I want the O's do go into all-out, win-now mode in 2018, but if the O's really were going to go all-out, shouldn't they be serious players for the best starting pitchers on the free agent market?

I agree with Roch that middle-of-the-road is the worst place for the O's to be.  If they keep Manny and Zach and "upgrade" the rotation by signing Vargas, Cashner and Tillman, they will wind up in 4th place with a bleak future. 

Maybe the best plan for the offseason is to make a serious push for the top-end starters (including Cobb and Lynn), and if that fails, shift gears and become seller/rebuilders.

 

Exactly. I agree with the general point that the organization needs to pick a strategy but I find it sad that Cobb would be considered going all in. Most competitive teams would consider a guy like that to be a middle of the road move. If so, rebuild seems the best option. 

[24fps]

52 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I enjoyed 2016.

I did as well, but had we not re-signed Davis, not offered the QO to Wieters, traded Britton at the peak of his value during an offseason of big overpays for closers then we might still have enjoyed 2016 as well as 2017 all the way to the end.  That was a lot of resources that could have been better allocated for the future without necessarily compromising the present - very much in line with the patient rebuild approach.

[Redskins Rick]

14 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Right, after a successful season.

What is the market going to be like after two years of under 500 ball?

They recycle managers all the time with under .500 ball resumes, why do you think they have a different standard for GMs?

[osfan83]

16 hours ago, Black Bat said:

This mythical concept of reloading while rebuilding is akin to multi-tasking.  It can't be done.  You either focus on one thing and see it through or you muddle along aimlessly about like a plastic bag in the wind.

FWIW, most fans here fit into the latter category because they can't stomach waiting for a year or two when it gives a much better rate for sustained success.  Probably a bunch of millennials in that crowd who maintain the attention span of a Cocker Spaniel but I'm sure they're not alone.  I see a lot of old timers here who can't wait either.  Not for one second.  

Or maybe some of use remember the reloading that took place in 2000....I waited, and waited, and waited. 

One think I liked about DD...when he came to town he said there is no 5 year plan....the plan is to win now. I've seen a lot of 5 year plans, then in year 4 they hire someone new, and start a new 5 year plan. 

[Lucky_13]

4 hours ago, osfan83 said:

Or maybe some of use remember the reloading that took place in 2000....I waited, and waited, and waited. 

One think I liked about DD...when he came to town he said there is no 5 year plan....the plan is to win now. I've seen a lot of 5 year plans, then in year 4 they hire someone new, and start a new 5 year plan. 

This.  I think everyone would be on board to rebuild if it guaranteed a World Series caliber team in 3-5 years but it doesn't.  Everyone's caught up in what the Astros did.  For every perfect Astros rebuild there's teams like the Orioles (15 losing seasons), the Royals  (13 losing seasons) or even the current phillies (6 straight losing seasons) 

 

[spiritof66]

8 minutes ago, Lucky_13 said:

This.  I think everyone would be on board to rebuild if it guaranteed a World Series caliber team in 3-5 years but it doesn't.  Everyone's caught up in what the Astros did.  For every perfect Astros rebuild there's teams like the Orioles (15 losing seasons), the Royals  (13 losing seasons) or even the current phillies (6 straight losing seasons) 

 

"Rebuild" can mean a lot of different things. (The same is true of "all-in.")  I would like to see the Orioles try to trade some veterans, especially the guys who are in their walk years and won't be returning, give the young guys lots of playing time, try to get rid of Trumbo or Davis or both, avoid (or minimize) the trading of prospects to help the starting staff, and start using their international money to sign players. Some or all of those things might hurt the team's 2018 record. I would call that a rebuild. 

I don't want to see the Orioles try to trade every veteran with a big salary for prospects, strip the payroll down to $50 million or so (not counting the immovable Crush), and see how the existing and incoming prospects develop over the next few years. I would call that a rebuild, too.

I see those as two different strategies. (They have this in common, though: neither will happen.)