Buck on Buck

[Frobby]

10 hours ago, 24fps said:

FWIW I don't buy the age argument unless he's creating and/or marketing to a young demographic.  That's only a small part of his job and he can hire people to handle that.  Seriously can we dispense with the age business?  And if we must, can we at least credit Dan with being a prototype and able to remember 25 years back.

When wildcard first raised the age issue, I was as skeptical as you are, but then I looked at the current list of GM’s.   24 teams have named a GM since Sandy Alderson was appointed to the Mets, and 23 were younger than Dan Duquette.   The other one was Dan Duquette, when he was six years younger than he is now.    Most of the GM’s appointed were much younger.   So I’m not saying Dan won’t find another gig, but I’m saying that it’s far from certain that he will.   

[Redskins Rick]

18 minutes ago, Frobby said:

When wildcard first raised the age issue, I was as skeptical as you are, but then I looked at the current list of GM’s.   24 teams have named a GM since Sandy Alderson was appointed to the Mets, and 23 were younger than Dan Duquette.   The other one was Dan Duquette, when he was six years younger than he is now.    Most of the GM’s appointed were much younger.   So I’m not saying Dan won’t find another gig, but I’m saying that it’s far from certain that he will.   

I think some of it depends on Dan, and if he wants to enjoy life after baseball.

Not everybody wants to work until they need to go into a nursing home.

[24fps]

6 hours ago, Frobby said:

When wildcard first raised the age issue, I was as skeptical as you are, but then I looked at the current list of GM’s.   24 teams have named a GM since Sandy Alderson was appointed to the Mets, and 23 were younger than Dan Duquette.   The other one was Dan Duquette, when he was six years younger than he is now.    Most of the GM’s appointed were much younger.   So I’m not saying Dan won’t find another gig, but I’m saying that it’s far from certain that he will.   

Dan Duquette is 59.  Andy MacPhail was 61 when he was hired as Special Assistant to Pat Gillick and 62 when he took over as Phillies president.  You can argue that MacPhail is not a GM per se, Matt Klentak has the title, but the following is from a CBSPhilly report dated 6/29/15:

“Last December, when Jim Buck, Pete Buck and I began discussing Pat’s successor, our primary, in fact our paramount concern was the team’s on-field performance and the need to improve it and get us back to the winning ways we enjoyed from 2007 to 2011,” Middleton said. “In fact, it wasn’t just our primary objective. It was our first, second and third priority. I say that because when we were interviewing Andy, we made it clear to him that we expect him to devote the vast majority of his time to improving the baseball side of the business, to improving the farm system and ultimately the major league team. Every other consideration in this hiring decision was secondary to that goal. 

I don't want to split hairs based on titles because the lines get blurred depending on the organization, but it looks to me like MacPhail has a job that DD is also qualified to do regardless of what you want to call it.  If you look back at my earlier post, I suggested that a similar path might be ahead for Duquette, possibly in Baltimore, but in my opinion more likely elsewhere.  DD has a large amount executive talent along with a demonstrated ability in a highly specialized field.  Given the rarity of that experience, I don't believe prospective employers are going discount too much solely based on age.  It was certainly no impediment to Toronto's owners.

[Frobby]

Fair points.   I still think it’s not a sure thing that Dan will be coveted by other teams.    

[Ohfan67]

I think Peter Angelos seems more comfortable with older executives. The “young gun” type hires did not last very long if I recall. Angelos is a glacier and snail hybrid. Not sure a high intensity younger executive would work. But of course even Peter won’t live forever. Well, maybe not. 

[Tx Oriole]

On 12/12/2017 at 5:37 PM, Satyr3206 said:

Although I have disagreed with some of his moves, Buck is one of the few managers the Orioles have ever had, that I would pretty much let him decide how long he wants to Manage here.

What about the GM? It has to be someone that can get along and work with Angelos. Would you move Buck to GM and the let Buck pick a manager to replace him? 

[Tx Oriole]

On 12/12/2017 at 6:21 PM, MDtransplant757 said:

I'd love to keep both Buck and DD here for a while longer. 

Buck yes but not DD. 

[interloper]

Y'all.

Can we talk about the crime that is a lack of Buck extension? I mean yeah, we all have our little gripes about Buck, but come on. If I'm Angelos, all I need to hear from Buck is "yeah I'd like to keep managing." Done. Here's 3 years, keep on doing what you're doing. 

Any other team with a manager like Buck this is an easy call. The guy's solid. The players like him or tolerate him. The fans LOVE him. He works HARD. He makes FEW mistakes. Buck can annoy me sometimes like anyone else, but I know a no-brainer when I see one.

It's absolutely ridiculous he doesn't have an extension.

[interloper]

We're talking about the second longest tenured Orioles manager. Pretty much a baseball treasure. Says and does the right things. The Britton thing sucked. Sorry that happened, but I'm past it. 

When you think about any other organization in baseball who has 1) a manager this tenured, b) a manager this well-liked, c) a manager this skilled and detail-oriented, d) a manager who is out there running drills with his team at 60+.. 

I mean what are we doing. If I talked to you 10 years ago and told you "Buck helped get us out of the losing streak and provided some great memories and really worked hard at understanding the Baltimore thing and yeah made a few mistakes here and there, but mostly out-managed the opposition on a daily basis, and figured out how to manage a bullpen properly, but we decided eh, no thanks in 2017 for no apparent reason", you'd be freaking livid about that. 

[interloper]

If the FO thinks a better manager than Buck Showalter is walking through that door in 2019, ummm, I got news for 'em. 

There's NO REASON that we should have a lame duck manager right now. None. It's patently ridiculous. Get this DONE.

[eddie83]

If Buck wants to stay he will be staying. I have said this before but look around the sport. Outside of a handful of managers the GM’s have all the power. As good as Buck is I am not so sure he fits the modern model of a manager which has basically turned into a yes man for the GM. 

[interloper]

Just now, eddie83 said:

If Buck wants to stay he will be staying. I have said this before but look around the sport. Outside of a handful of managers the GM’s have all the power. As good as Buck is I am not so sure he fits the modern model of a manager which has basically turned into a yes man for the GM. 

He should already have a contract. It's insulting that he doesn't, frankly. Unless they have some kind of tacit agreement that he's going to be the GM in 2019, but that feels like a dumb fan theory. 

[eddie83]

1 minute ago, interloper said:

He should already have a contract. It's insulting that he doesn't, frankly. Unless they have some kind of tacit agreement that he's going to be the GM in 2019, but that feels like a dumb fan theory. 

I just don’t see him leaving as long as he wants to be here. He is the public face of this turnaround. In general the fans love him and all evidence points to a great relationship with the owner. 

Perhaps he wanted to see how he would feel down the road and if he wanted to continue before committing to a longer term deal.  

[Frobby]

13 minutes ago, interloper said:

He should already have a contract. It's insulting that he doesn't, frankly. Unless they have some kind of tacit agreement that he's going to be the GM in 2019, but that feels like a dumb fan theory. 

I don’t know, but suspect there’s an informal agreement with Buck that hasn’t been made public because Duquette doesn’t have a similar deal and it would look weird if a team extended its manager while leaving its GM twisting in the wind.  It’s also possible that the O’s have approached Buck but he hasn’t committed. 

[interloper]

Just now, Frobby said:

I don’t know, but suspect there’s an informal agreement with Buck that hasn’t been made public because Duquette doesn’t have a similar deal and it would look weird if a team extended its manager while leaving its GM twisting in the wind.  It’s also possible that the O’s have approached Buck but he hasn’t committed. 

Valid points. I am now off the ledge. I would suspect you're right, otherwise I find this all very silly considering the ease of this decision.