What if the O's did not need starting pitching for Manny?

[Redskins Rick]

2 hours ago, wildcard said:

Depends on what he Blue Jays do the rest on the off season.   They had the lowest runs scored in the AL last year.  50 runs below the O's.    The days of Bautista and Encarnacion are over.     If they make some significant adds they could be in contention.

The Blues Jays have done exactly what this off-season?

I looked and they had ZIP for transactions in Dec 2017.

[Yardball85]

2 hours ago, joelala said:

This is the exact issue.  A team who wants Manny for a 1 year rental is going for it this year.  Trading not one, but two major league pitchers severely hampers that teams ability to contend, ergo we see that no team has met our asking price.  One year of Manny Machado simply isn't worth "two young, major league ready, cost controlled pitchers."  The ask right now is absurd, and I'm hoping we come down off of it, because we could still get quite a nice haul for Manny if the players aren't major league ready.  Take high upside guys in the lower minors, like four of them, and hope you can develop a star or two.  It would be like getting four comp picks for Manny instead of two.  It's an absolute no-brainer.  And yet, we are under the delusional impression that we are a Jason Vargas (over a 6.00 ERA in the second half last year) and Andrew Cashner (who just averaged a paltry 4.6 K/9 in 2017) away from contending.  It's maddening to me.

I agree wholeheartedly with PhillyO's that I just would like an organization that is run pragmatically, like all other succesful small/mid market ones are. 

 

 

Great post. Spot on.

[Ripken]

They should accept the best overall talent package, regardless of player position.  I realize pitching would be ideal but it doesn't have to be pitchers.  Rebuilding the org means adding talent wherever you can and going from there.  If the entire lineup is young and cheap they can buy starters the next few years and/or trade from positional surplus.  Of course, we're too dumb to do this.

[Otter]

3 hours ago, joelala said:

This is the exact issue.  A team who wants Manny for a 1 year rental is going for it this year.  Trading not one, but two major league pitchers severely hampers that teams ability to contend, ergo we see that no team has met our asking price.  One year of Manny Machado simply isn't worth "two young, major league ready, cost controlled pitchers."  The ask right now is absurd, and I'm hoping we come down off of it, because we could still get quite a nice haul for Manny if the players aren't major league ready.  Take high upside guys in the lower minors, like four of them, and hope you can develop a star or two.  It would be like getting four comp picks for Manny instead of two.  It's an absolute no-brainer.  And yet, we are under the delusional impression that we are a Jason Vargas (over a 6.00 ERA in the second half last year) and Andrew Cashner (who just averaged a paltry 4.6 K/9 in 2017) away from contending.  It's maddening to me.

I agree wholeheartedly with PhillyO's that I just would like an organization that is run pragmatically, like all other succesful small/mid market ones are. 

 

 

Exactly.  It doesn't make sense for a team with playoff aspirations to trade 2 major league ready pitchers they might need next season.  And on the flip side, the asking price doesn't make any sense for the O's either.  Why would you trade your best player, and then still try to make the playoffs in 2018 (which is the obvious message if you're demanding 2 major league pitchers in return)??

[joelala]

43 minutes ago, Otter said:

Exactly.  It doesn't make sense for a team with playoff aspirations to trade 2 major league ready pitchers they might need next season.  And on the flip side, the asking price doesn't make any sense for the O's either.  Why would you trade your best player, and then still try to make the playoffs in 2018 (which is the obvious message if you're demanding 2 major league pitchers in return)??

It's baffling, really.

[weams]

5 hours ago, Redskins Rick said:

Attendance is overall down in baseball with some exceptions, I am not sure even a WS would bring attendance back to what it was in the glory years.

High cost of the games and the younger generation lack of interest in attending games is a big key.

Games are cheap. It is the Nationals that killed the Orioles. 

[Frobby]

33 minutes ago, weams said:

Games are cheap. It is the Nationals that killed the Orioles. 

The Orioles’ annual attendance dropped by a million fans before the Nationals ever arrived.    You can thank Peter Angelos’ inept stewardship for that.    The existence of the Nats will prevent attendance from ever reaching its former level, but the O’s are largely suffering from self-inflicted wounds in my opinion.   

[wildcard]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

The Orioles’ annual attendance dropped by a million fans before the Nationals ever arrived.    You can thank Peter Angelos’ inept stewardship for that.    The existence of the Nats will prevent attendance from ever reaching its former level, but the O’s are largely suffering from self-inflicted wounds in my opinion.   

Ever?

[Otter]

42 minutes ago, weams said:

Games are cheap. It is the Nationals that killed the Orioles. 

I think you also have to consider the hassle of going to a game; and really the hassle of going to any pro sporting event.  You have to fight traffic to get into the city, find parking, and spend a lot of money on tickets/parking/food (especially with a family).  I think a lot of people avoid the hassle and watch the game from the comfort of your own home on a 60 inch HD screen.

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Ever?

Ever.    You will never see the O’s draw 3.7 mm fans again.    Heck, the 2014 team couldn’t even draw 2.5 mm.     I think if you had the perfect storm, maybe the O’s could draw 3.0 mm.    To do that, you’d need several consecutive years of contention, a great pennant race, plus a terrible team in DC.

It’s pretty interesting that the Orioles/Nats combined have never matched their 2005 attendance from the first year the Nats were here (5.35 mm).    Since then, the high water mark was 5.04 mm in 2014.     

[weams]

22 minutes ago, Otter said:

I think you also have to consider the hassle of going to a game; and really the hassle of going to any pro sporting event.  You have to fight traffic to get into the city, find parking, and spend a lot of money on tickets/parking/food (especially with a family).  I think a lot of people avoid the hassle and watch the game from the comfort of your own home on a 60 inch HD screen.

Na. It's not that. Games are relatively easy cheap and fun. It's the lack of a stable large fan base now. And affluence. Not an affluent fan area. 

[weams]

16 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Ever.    You will never see the O’s draw 3.7 mm fans again.    Heck, the 2014 team couldn’t even draw 2.5 mm.     I think if you had the perfect storm, maybe the O’s could draw 3.0 mm.    To do that, you’d need several consecutive years of contention, a great pennant race, plus a terrible team in DC.

It’s pretty interesting that the Orioles/Nats combined have never matched their 2005 attendance from the first year the Nats were here (5.35 mm).    Since then, the high water mark was 5.04 mm in 2014.     

You are preaching to the choir. Montreal, here we come!

[Frobby]

5 minutes ago, weams said:

You are preaching to the choir. Montreal, here we come!

I don’t think we’re preaching the same sermon.    Just because we’re no longer at the top of the attendance chart doesn’t mean we’re doomed to be at the bottom. But we probably will be in the lower half most of the time.    With revenue sharing, extra draft picks for smaller market teams and a TV deal that allows us to retain a decent chunk (more than half) of the combined DC/Baltimore TV revenue, we will survive.    But it may not always be pretty.

[Otter]

11 minutes ago, weams said:

Na. It's not that. Games are relatively easy cheap and fun. It's the lack of a stable large fan base now. And affluence. Not an affluent fan area. 

I think you're underestimating the hassle factor.  I know I, and friends/family I've talked to, go to a lot less sporting events (not just baseball) for that very reason.  

[Luke-OH]

7 minutes ago, Otter said:

I think you're underestimating the hassle factor.  I know I, and friends/family I've talked to, go to a lot less sporting events (not just baseball) for that very reason.  

Orioles games are relatively low hassle IMO, and I live south of DC.  There is usually free street parking within an easy walk of Camden Yards for night games, off 95 and parked in less than 5 minutes.