Phillies aggressively lock up prospect Kingery

[backwardsk]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

The AAV doesn't change.  Frontloading money won't help with the Cap.

So in a sense, it already does help the cap in years 4,5, and 6 because they are viewed as $4M instead of what he'd get in arbitration.

[Frobby]

22 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

It's a good deal if you think the kid is even a league average player.

Is it?   Schoop has made $14 mm with one year of team control remaining.  Let’s assume Schoop makes $13 mm next year, that’s a total of $27 mm.    Kingery is now guaranteed 90% of that, before playing a major league game.   This for a guy who is a no. 30ish prospect.     If he has to spend a bit more time in the minors, or gets hurt sometime in the next five years, this could turn out badly for Philly.    They’re gambling that he’s a Schoop level player who can stay healthy.    It will be interesting to follow this one over the next several years.   

[Moose Milligan]

This is what they should have done with Manny.  Maybe he wouldn't have gone for those exact terms but we could have locked him up for longer and cheaper.  

It's what the Rays did for Longoria, right after they called him up they gave him a six or seven year deal.  

I think you'll be seeing more of this in the coming seasons.  Will the Orioles do it?  Probably not, they're not that smart.

[weams]

10 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

No way you get Machado for 6/24 with three team options.

Schoop might have bit on that.

No. He sold himself for 10% of 50. So it would have been 50 with 10% up front. Word is he has never considered an extension since that sale. 

[Moose Milligan]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Is it?   Schoop has made $14 mm with one year of team control remaining.  Let’s assume Schoop makes $13 mm next year, that’s a total of $27 mm.    Kingery is now guaranteed 90% of that, before playing a major league game.   This for a guy who is a no. 30ish prospect.     If he has to spend a bit more time in the minors, or gets hurt sometime in the next five years, this could turn out badly for Philly.    They’re gambling that he’s a Schoop level player who can stay healthy.    It will be interesting to follow this one over the next several years.   

Kingery is guaranteed 90% of that but over the span of several years, not two.  

[sportsfan8703]

39 minutes ago, weams said:

What I really want is to lock up Sisco. 

Sisco is are equivalent. Manny was a super prospect. Schoop was coming off a injured back and a down year in AAA. 

Sisco is the guy we should lock up. 

[weams]

6 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Is it?   Schoop has made $14 mm with one year of team control remaining.  Let’s assume Schoop makes $13 mm next year, that’s a total of $27 mm.    Kingery is now guaranteed 90% of that, before playing a major league game.   This for a guy who is a no. 30ish prospect.     If he has to spend a bit more time in the minors, or gets hurt sometime in the next five years, this could turn out badly for Philly.    They’re gambling that he’s a Schoop level player who can stay healthy.    It will be interesting to follow this one over the next several years.   

I agree. Fun though. 

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Kingery is guaranteed 90% of that but over the span of several years, not two.  

The $27 mm for Schoop is a projected 6-year number.   He’s made $14 mm total including his 2018 salary of $8.5 mm.

[Can_of_corn]

9 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Is it?   Schoop has made $14 mm with one year of team control remaining.  Let’s assume Schoop makes $13 mm next year, that’s a total of $27 mm.    Kingery is now guaranteed 90% of that, before playing a major league game.   This for a guy who is a no. 30ish prospect.     If he has to spend a bit more time in the minors, or gets hurt sometime in the next five years, this could turn out badly for Philly.    They’re gambling that he’s a Schoop level player who can stay healthy.    It will be interesting to follow this one over the next several years.   

I would be shocked if Schoop's name wasn't mentioned in the negotiations.

Yea, this isn't a super bargain like the Longoria deal.  But if he can play he's going to make the 6/24 anyway and the options will be a great deal.

[Can_of_corn]

11 minutes ago, weams said:

No. He sold himself for 10% of 50. So it would have been 50 with 10% up front. Word is he has never considered an extension since that sale. 

Pretty sure he sold the 10% well after he made the majors.

Do you think he would have agreed to sell his future earnings if the O's had placed a six year deal in front of him?

[Can_of_corn]

19 minutes ago, backwardsk said:

So in a sense, it already does help the cap in years 4,5, and 6 because they are viewed as $4M instead of what he'd get in arbitration.

Yes, if they are planning on getting close to the cap that could be helpful.

[weams]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Pretty sure he sold the 10% well after he made the majors.

Do you think he would have agreed to sell his future earnings if the O's had placed a six year deal in front of him?

For 50 million? No. And you are right. It was after he got hurt I think. 

[Aristotelian]

What is the point? You are only "locking him up" for years that he is already locked up. I guess the Phillies bet is that he would earn more in arbitration. I guess I would be inclined to let arb run its course since there is a ceiling to how much he can earn. If he maxes out in arb, that's a good problem to have.

[Can_of_corn]

14 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

What is the point? You are only "locking him up" for years that he is already locked up. I guess the Phillies bet is that he would earn more in arbitration. I guess I would be inclined to let arb run its course since there is a ceiling to how much he can earn. If he maxes out in arb, that's a good problem to have.

The three options.

[Luke-OH]

12 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

What is the point? You are only "locking him up" for years that he is already locked up. I guess the Phillies bet is that he would earn more in arbitration. I guess I would be inclined to let arb run its course since there is a ceiling to how much he can earn. If he maxes out in arb, that's a good problem to have.

Team options for the following 3 years are included. 13, 14, and 15 million. I’m guessing 6 years down the road, those will be considered cheap as long as he’s an average starter.