The CHB on Ted, and Launch Angle

[VaBird1]

15 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Always thought the whole "launch angle" trend recently was weird.  I remember The Science of Hitting and Williams talking about how a slight upswing is best.  Seems to be common sense to me as someone who played baseball and has watched a ton of it.  

I thought the same thing.  I had known that since I got that book as a kid.

[waroriole]

7 hours ago, Chavez Ravine said:

I still can't wrap my head around 2001, no matter what happy juice he was taking.

In 2004, he had a .609 OBP and 1.421 OPS. 

[InsideCoroner]

17 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Yet I was taught to swing down on the ball in high school and we were taught the "Orioles Way" because my headcoach was an Orioles associate scout.

I was also taught to swing down on the ball, "like you're chopping down a tree with an axe". Then I read Ted's book which directly contradicted that. I figured the Splendid Splinter probably knew more about hitting than my rec league coach, who taught sociology for a living. 

[Tony-OH]

On 4/7/2018 at 7:12 PM, weams said:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2018/04/07/let-revisit-ted-williams-take-launch-angle-and-other-thoughts/9qkhL7iPrehvOVpF1pGkTK/story.html

 

 

I'll bite buddy, what does CHB stand for?

[Larry18]

10 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I'll bite buddy, what does CHB stand for?

Chowder Headed B@$t@%#s? 

[Just Regular]

I remember having an epiphany on his counting stats when it dawned on me he lost a bit over 4 full seasons to service, including his prime age 24/25/26 years.

The black ink is 521 HR, 1839 RBI, but they "could" be 675 HR and a 50/50 shot at beating Henry Aaron for the all-time RBI lead, and of course being alongside Ruth and Bonds in the first tier of career OPS+

The Cumulative WAR by age graph is one of my favorites - this one doesn't really do justice to the flat wartime spell, as it has a slight slope as if he had mediocre seasons when he was away.

https://www.fangraphs.com/graphsw.aspx?players=1011327,1014040,1109,10155&wg=2

And as always with these, Trout.

[El Gordo]

On 4/8/2018 at 7:40 AM, Frobby said:

The Science of Hitting is a true classic.   Nobody ever combined natural talent, hard work and a desire to study the game the way Ted Williams did.    Met him once, that was a thrill.   Like shaking hands with a god, when I was 13.   

I hope you haven't washed that hand since.

[foxfield]

On 4/8/2018 at 7:48 AM, Can_of_corn said:

Do you think, for a second, that if Ted thought it would make him a better hitter he wouldn't have used PEDs?

Oh let's put this guy on the moral high ground since it wasn't available.

 

21 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Because people who should know better lauding players who played in a certain age as being somehow more natural, pure or moral than players who played in the steroid era irks me.

Lots of guys " combined natural talent, hard work and a desire to study the game".  I would say someone like Cal Jr, who didn't ignore defense, better fits the description than Ted does.

Yes Arod and Bonds used steroids they both had tremendous natural ability, worked very hard and were serious students of the game.

 

That is why.  Like it, don't like it, that's the reason.  Since you asked for one.

 

Also, I'm not the one who started talking about steroids.  I simply said that Arod and Bonds "combined natural talent, hard work and a desire to study the game".  It was Frobby who decided he needed to disqualify them from the discussion.

 

The game changes, and yet the game is the same...27 outs.  One of the things that allows us to converse and...yes to argue are the numbers.  I cannot claim to know the moral differences of say Ted Williams vs Barry Bonds and I would not try to do so.  But there are some factual differences that certainly make it easier to taint... or maybe to paint some of the modern steroid abusers.  One, Barry Bonds, Alex Rodriguez and Roger Clemens were all among the greatest in the game.  They also became filthy rich playing and all enhanced their game in a way that was illegal.  And in the modern era, these things are known.  It does not nor should not take away from their ability to excel, but the fact that we know things things cannot be ignored regardless of how their counting stats measure.

That said, it is unfair to laud or to imply things we don't know.  Ted Williams may or may not have used steroids if he played alongside Bonds and Arod.  I don't know.  He may or may not have been the sole initiator of "greenies" to the MLB...again, I don't know.  He seems by many accounts to have been a hell of a baseball player but maybe not the greatest person.  But I will say this.  I don't think anyone should have a problem with saying the era was more pure, because well, it was.  I think it would be unfair to say it was lily white pure.....but it was certainly not as "enhanced".  

This would be no different than comparing intelligence today vs then.  We may or may not be smarter today, but the reality is our access to information is vastly different even if our moral challenges and choices are also vastly expanded.  That doesn't even begin to compare the social differences that existed between Ted's era and the Era of Bonds/Arod.  Ted Williams played his entire career in a lily white league.

I choose to believe your main point CoC is that today's game, with it's imperfections is full of more complete players than those that existed in earlier era's.  It's the 27 outs, and the 154/162 game seasons that lends itself to these conversations that overlap generations.

I have no doubt that Roger Clemens would dominate MLB in 1945.  I do wonder if Teddy Ballgame would hit .400 in an era of specialized pitching...

18 hours ago, Il BuonO said:

A man has to have goals — for a day, for a lifetime — and that was mine, to have people say, "There goes Ted Williams, the greatest hitter who ever lived."

-Ted Williams 

I will also say that whatever his imperfections as a man...who stopped playing three years before I was born...the statement above is as relevant today as it was when he played.  And I am amazed at how his science...is still relevant.

The debate is the essence of the game...and I would merely caution you and all of us to remember that in all of our discussion.  God is this a great game or what!?! 

[murph]

11 hours ago, waroriole said:

I’d say Barry Bonds, but I also never saw Ted play.

 

Still the last guy to bat .400

Yea, I was really going for the famous Williams quote, but il BuonO hit it accurately later in another post.  I never saw Williams hit either, but always been a favorite of mine.

[weams]

4 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

I'll bite buddy, what does CHB stand for?

Various things. One of which is Curly-Haired Boyfriend. It's a Boston thing for Shaughnessy.

Quote

Carl Everett once told the Globe's Gordon Edes to “Get out of here and take your Curly-Haired Boyfriend with you.” The name—or CHB for short—has stuck to Shaughnessy through the years.,.

 

https://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/2015/03/27/david-ortiz-on-dan-shaughnessy-the-reporter-with-the-red-jheri-curl/

[Il BuonO]

Showing soon on PBS and leans on Bradlee, Jr’s book.

https://journaltimes.com/entertainment/movies/ted-williams-mexican-american-heritage-explored-in-pbs-film/article_879bae71-ef76-50c0-9285-2bd23711fcc0.html