Indians and Orioles discussing Givens

[Luke-OH]

57 minutes ago, jabba72 said:

They would be selling low on Givens right now with his 4.40 ERA. Even if his FIP says he has been good this year. Maybe other teams recognize the O's have horrible defense. 

I wouldn’t worry about it, ERA isn’t the the only or primary way teams evaluate players. 

[Flacco Machado]

8 minutes ago, Greg Pappas said:

My expectation would be that the Indians, in a Jones + Givens package, would still not offer Bieber, Mejia, or N. Jones.  FWIW I'd guess more along the lines of Aaron Civale + Luis Oviedo. 

Yes, or maybe, Yu-Cheng Chang.

There's been talk he may move to 3B.

Get Crawford in the Manny deal, and Chang in this deal, and the left side of your INF is set in '19.

[ISU94]

1 minute ago, Luke-OH said:

I wouldn’t worry about it, ERA isn’t the the only or primary way teams evaluate players. 

Definitely true, and I know CLE is one of the organizations that has taken on the analytics side of the game to the fullest. Hence why they probably are big on Givens.

 

[LookitsPuck]

Givens is 28 and is a free agent in 2022. They'd essentially be getting him for 3 1/2 seasons and he's arbitration eligible next year. They shouldn't be quick to move him and they should 100% be playing hardball. 

Our defense is trash this year, so I don't worry about the ERA when his FIP is 2.73, i.e. his second lowest of his MLB career (4 years). He has the best home run rate of his career (0.2) coupled with a steady SO/9. Guys with a career 3.09 ERA, 3.13 WHIP,  10.8 SO/9 and 0.7 HR/9 don't grow on trees especially with how inexpensive and durable he's been. He'll give you nearly 75-80 IP a year.

So, yeah. Play as much hardball as you want, Brady. 

[Luke-OH]

40 minutes ago, Yardball85 said:

If you package him with Jones, i think it's reasonable to ask for one of them plus some lower level guys.  Their bullpen is AWFUL.

It’s reasonable to ask for Nolan Jones for Givens. 

You could ask for Mejia or Bieber for Givens, but I don’t think the Indians even consider that.

You have to remember, unless the player is the best player of the type (reliever, starter, etc) on the market, the Indians could use Mejia or Bieber to get a better player from another team.

[El Gordo]

Rebuild or no we're going to have to field a team next year, and we'll need a closer. Givens is cheap under control through 2021 and very likely to prove effective. In that case his value will become a lot higher as well as giving us good production, in a year or two.n  I'm not in a hurry to trade him now.

[ISU94]

Just now, El Gordo said:

Rebuild or no we're going to have to field a team next year, and we'll need a closer. Givens is cheap under control through 2021 and very likely prove effective. In that case his value will become a lot higher as well as giving us good production, in a year or two.n  I'm not in a hurry to trade him now.

This is a good point.

Britton and Brach leave and Givens is the next in line. Lot of control so he won't lose any value by having a year less anyway, especially if he becomes a closer and does well in that role.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

Trade Givens if you can get a good return.  It’s going to take 3 or 4 years to rebuild, maybe even longer. 

Get a player whose clock hasn’t started.

[El Gordo]

2 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Trade Givens if you can get a good return.  It’s going to take 3 or 4 years to rebuild, maybe even longer. 

Get a player whose clock hasn’t started.

What are the chances that player's value is as high as Givens' is in two years, or ever? Prospects/suspects?

[Flacco Machado]

21 minutes ago, Luke-OH said:

It’s reasonable to ask for Nolan Jones for Givens. 

You could ask for Mejia or Bieber for Givens, but I don’t think the Indians even consider that.

You have to remember, unless the player is the best player of the type (reliever, starter, etc) on the market, the Indians could use Mejia or Bieber to get a better player from another team.

Wow, if we got N.Jones for Givens, that would be great.

I didn't think it would be possible. I saw Jones as a fast rising prospect.

[mcneck]

1 hour ago, El Gordo said:

Rebuild or no we're going to have to field a team next year, and we'll need a closer. Givens is cheap under control through 2021 and very likely to prove effective. In that case his value will become a lot higher as well as giving us good production, in a year or two.n  I'm not in a hurry to trade him now.

It doesn't matter one bit. Our goal the next 2-3 years should be to suck and get the first pick every year. Who cares if we win 5-10 more games because we have Givens, we still suck. That being said there isn't a huge rush to trade him because we do have him for 3+ years but the reasoning for holding on to him should have nothing to do with next years results.

[El Gordo]

2 minutes ago, mcneck said:

It doesn't matter one bit. Our goal the next 2-3 years should be to suck and get the first pick every year. Who cares if we win 5-10 more games because we have Givens, we still suck. That being said there isn't a huge rush to trade him because we do have him for 3+ years but the reasoning for holding on to him should have nothing to do with next years results.

You are obviously incapable of grasping my point.

[pastorfan]

2 hours ago, jabba72 said:

They would be selling low on Givens right now with his 4.40 ERA. Even if his FIP says he has been good this year. Maybe other teams recognize the O's have horrible defense. 

I do not think they are selling "low." I think everyone knows what Givens can do, especially with a defense.

[LookitsPuck]

Closers are luxuries a rebuilding team doesn't need.

[nate22]

1 hour ago, LookitsPuck said:

Givens is 28 and is a free agent in 2022. They'd essentially be getting him for 3 1/2 seasons and he's arbitration eligible next year. They shouldn't be quick to move him and they should 100% be playing hardball. 

Our defense is trash this year, so I don't worry about the ERA when his FIP is 2.73, i.e. his second lowest of his MLB career (4 years). He has the best home run rate of his career (0.2) coupled with a steady SO/9. Guys with a career 3.09 ERA, 3.13 WHIP,  10.8 SO/9 and 0.7 HR/9 don't grow on trees especially with how inexpensive and durable he's been. He'll give you nearly 75-80 IP a year.

So, yeah. Play as much hardball as you want, Brady. 

This is probably the biggest reason the Indians are interested. I think both Miller and Allen hit free agency next year.