Business as usual for the O's. LOL.

[sportsfan8703]

12 minutes ago, orioles119 said:

Oh look... the Facebook group has found the board!

Haha. If we don’t bring AJ back I’m burning my Dan Duquette Garden Gnome. 

[Morgan423]

48 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

As there ever been any thread with LOL in it that made sense?

No.

 

 

LOL.

[ORIOLE33]

8 minutes ago, OFFNY said:

o

 

If this were New York, the payroll of the team would have been in excess of $200 Million since 2004.

 

If this were New York, the wasteful Chris Davis contract would not be looming over the franchise's head like a dark cloud, threatening to hamstring it for the next 4 to 5 years.

 

If this were New York, there would be no "risk/reward" factor in terms of paying their players to stay and/or acquiring new and expensive free agents. 

 

For mid-market and small-market teams, if they splurge on a couple of highly expensive free agents that don't work out (like the Orioles did with Chris Davis), those teams will likely be moderately to severely hamstrung financially as a result of those signings for several years. The Orioles, in light of Chris Davis' most recent contract extension and its influence in how the Orioles dealt with Manny Machado (and his soon-to-be mega-contract(s) for whichever team that he signs with), could be starting down the barrel of that type of situation over the next few years. For the Yankees, it doesn't matter if they spend a lot of money on free agents that either bust and/or don't live up to the expectations that they had of them when they gave them all of that money (Carl Pavano, A. J. Burnett, Randy Johnson, Alex Rodriguez, Mark Teixeira, etc.) Or for that matter, Derek Jeter in the last few years of his career. Jeter wasn't a free agent signing, but he was a player that was making boatloads of money at that time ($16 Million a year over the final 5 years of his career between 2010 and 2014), and he was nowhere near that type of money player in his last 2 years with the team. But for the Yankees and their short-term and long-term budgets, no matter ....... they can keep spending, with little or no repercussions. There is the luxury tax situation for teams that spend excessively, but I'm talking about repercussions that seriously/adversely affect their thinking and their general financial situation in any meaningful way. Sure, the Yankees would like to avoid the luxury tax when they can, but if they don't, it's not like it then will significantly change their overall situation at-large. They almost certainly would not be remotely considering the possibility of letting a player like Manny Machado leave via free agency (if he were on their team) with only a draft pick coming back their way. Their payroll has dropped some over the last 2-3 seasons, but that has been due largely to big contracts coming off the the books, not necessarily a conscious effort by the Yankees to considerably tighten their pocket strings.

 

o

They could have paid Cruz, but they knew Davis’ contract was coming up. They knew Manny’s contract was coming up, they chose to pay Davis. 

The NY media would have had a field day with management.

[OFFNY]

4 minutes ago, OFFNY said:

o

 

If this were New York, the payroll of the team would have been in excess of $200 Million since 2004.

 

If this were New York, the wasteful Chris Davis contract would not be looming over the franchise's head like a dark cloud, threatening to hamstring it for the next 4 to 5 years.

 

If this were New York, there would be no "risk/reward" factor in terms of paying their players to stay and/or acquiring new and expensive free agents. 

 

For mid-market and small-market teams, if they splurge on a couple of highly expensive free agents that don't work out (like the Orioles did with Chris Davis), those teams will likely be moderately to severely hamstrung financially as a result of those signings for several years. The Orioles, in light of Chris Davis' most recent contract extension and its influence in how the Orioles dealt with Manny Machado (and his soon-to-be mega-contract(s) for whichever team that he signs with), could be starting down the barrel of that type of situation over the next few years. For the Yankees, it doesn't matter if they spend a lot of money on free agents that either bust and/or don't live up to the expectations that they had of them when they gave them all of that money (Carl Pavano, A. J. Burnett, Randy Johnson, Alex Rodriguez, Mark Teixeira, etc.) Or for that matter, Derek Jeter in the last few years of his career. Jeter wasn't a free agent signing, but he was a player that was making boatloads of money at that time ($16 Million a year over the final 5 years of his career between 2010 and 2014), and he was nowhere near that type of money player in his last 2 years with the team. But for the Yankees and their short-term and long-term budgets, no matter ....... they can keep spending, with little or no repercussions. There is the luxury tax situation for teams that spend excessively, but I'm talking about repercussions that seriously/adversely affect their thinking and their general financial situation in any meaningful way. Sure, the Yankees would like to avoid the luxury tax when they can, but if they don't, it's not like it then will significantly change their overall situation at-large. They almost certainly would not be remotely considering the possibility of letting a player like Manny Machado leave via free agency (if he were on their team) with only a draft pick coming back their way. Their payroll has dropped some over the last 2-3 seasons, but that has been due largely to big contracts coming off the the books, not necessarily a conscious effort by the Yankees to considerably tighten their pocket strings.

 

o

 

 

1 minute ago, MurphDogg said:

 

Meh, the Mets play in New York and they are pretty laughable.

 

o

 

They are, but they have never had the financial resources that the Yankees have had over an extended period of time, in spite of the fact that they play in the same city.

I used the Yankees as an example because they play in the same league (and the same division) as do the Orioles. More significantly, the fact that baseball has no salary cap makes comparisons of small-market teams and mid-market teams to large market teams the quintessential example of an apples-to-oranges comparison, which was my point in response to the poster's "If this were New York" hypothetical scenario.

 

o

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

24 minutes ago, orioles119 said:

Oh look... the Facebook group has found the board!

Or the old Sunspot posters from Baltimoresun.com now that the boards are closed.

[Can_of_corn]

8 minutes ago, ORIOLE33 said:

They could have paid Cruz, but they knew Davis’ contract was coming up. They knew Manny’s contract was coming up, they chose to pay Davis. 

The NY media would have had a field day with management.

I don't think Dan was planning on signing Davis.

[Barnaby Graves]

24 minutes ago, ORIOLE33 said:

I don’t know why people are getting on the OP. Doesn’t everyone, to a certain degree, feel the same way. 

Probably the two best players we’ve had over the past 5 years are gone, but guys like Davis and Trumbo remains. 

It’s a good thing this isn’t NY. They’d run this management outta town.

You know why they are still here, because they've got albatross contracts.  Same thing with Brian Roberts, who was actually on a higher rate of futility than Davis when he returned after his concussion (and after his contract).  I've been here too long and can't count on all of my fingers and toes the number of guys that JTrea (or whomever, the pro-FA contingent is a big crowd) wanted to sign to move the needle, who were a disaster after a few years.  Carlos Lee, Alfonso Soriano, Prince Fielder.  Good lord could you imagine paying for that.  Free agency is a bad deal for clubs, I am convinced of it.

Gallant presumes he's gotten the most out of his players before age 30 and sells high.  Goofus gives everyone tons of money to keep the band together while diverting resources from where they'd be more fruitful and then complains the whole team is old and sucks, and he didn't see that happening until it was too late.

[LocoChris]

So you choose now, after they actually make the right decision, to post this thread? Okaaaaay...

[OFFNY]

On 7/19/2018 at 5:20 PM, ORIOLE33 said:

 

They could have paid Cruz, but they knew Davis’ contract was coming up. They knew Manny’s contract was coming up, they chose to pay Davis. 

The NY media would have had a field day with management.

 

o

 

The Yankees would have EASILY paid both Cruz AND Davis, and those signings would have not have any implications (and the accompanying anxieties) that the Orioles had with Machado (and also with Schoop, in the near future.) For many years, the Yankees have been paying lots of money to players who sometimes work out and sometimes don't ........ that is not a luxury that mid-market and small-market teams have.

 

That's the entire point, as I made in my previous post. The Yankees are never in these kinds of binds because contracts that would otherwise cripple (or at least severely hamstring) mid-market and small-market teams (such as the examples of Mark Teixeira, Alex Rodriguez, and Derek Jeter in the last few years of their contracts) are at most a minor inconvenience for them.

Mid-market teams (and especially small-market teams) have these hard decisions to make, which teams like the Yankees do not.

 

o

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't think Dan was planning on signing Davis.

Trumbo trade happened in November 2015.  Seemed pretty clear to me that he was brought in to play 1B.

[GoldGlove21]

56 minutes ago, vikkt said:

For folks that are old enough, you are used to this kind of front office failure from the O's.

Whenever an O's squad is competitive, or they have a core group that can compete for the playoffs, I know they have about 3 years to win.  The last few years' window was a little longer (2012-2016), but you can ALWAYS count on ownership to NOT do what is necessary to win it all.   

I'm 47, so this is nothing new to me.  When I'm in my 60's I'll probably have another chance to see an Orioles championship (or at least go to the playoffs), since it's about every 15-20 years that they are competitive.  Or maybe this ownership hopefully decides to sell and someone with a winning attitude and actual "know-how" can build something here. Then it might be a little sooner.

Good Luck Manny.  I hope you finally get a chance to win a few World Series.   And in the next few years, I'll wish Adam Jones and Schoop good luck when they finally go to another organization who actually wants to win.

Some of the Orioles ability o be "competitive" is directly tied to the AL East. While the Yankees were not winning like you expect from the Yankees they were trading away veterans for premium talent. They were investing in the international market and they were putting money into scouting/developing players. Basically the Yankees got good again because they did what the Orioles are trying to do right now. Aging veterans and Manny are not going to win this team a championship.

 

[Satyr3206]

Actually it's not business as usual. In the past they would have let Manny play out the season and taken the draft pick, among other things.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Trumbo trade happened in November 2015.  Seemed pretty clear to me that he was brought in to play 1B.

I agree.

Davis wasn't Dan.

[weams]

1 hour ago, vikkt said:

For folks that are old enough, you are used to this kind of front office failure from the O's.

Whenever an O's squad is competitive, or they have a core group that can compete for the playoffs, I know they have about 3 years to win.  The last few years' window was a little longer (2012-2016), but you can ALWAYS count on ownership to NOT do what is necessary to win it all.  

I'm 47, so this is nothing new to me.  When I'm in my 60's I'll probably have another chance to see an Orioles championship (or at least go to the playoffs), since it's about every 15-20 years that they are competitive.  Or maybe this ownership hopefully decides to sell and someone with a winning attitude and actual "know-how" can build something here. Then it might be a little sooner.

Good Luck Manny.  I hope you finally get a chance to win a few World Series.   And in the next few years, I'll wish Adam Jones and Schoop good luck when they finally go to another organization who actually wants to win.

I did not down vote your post. But I must sincerely tell you, I think the timing of this negative post is unfortunate. If you do like the Orioles, today if a good day. 

[weams]

10 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't think Dan was planning on signing Davis.

I believe he attempted to tank the deal right up to the end. Boras got to Peter and got past everyone else.