Tulo?

[Frobby]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

They will know by the end of spring training if Davis is even making an actual effort to evolve.

He's using up a 25 and 40 man roster spot.  That also probably means that Mancini ends up in the outfield which is not good for anyone.

Davis had all of last year, he had all of 2017.

What more do we need to see if there are not major differences in spring training?

You do know the Angels ate most of Hamilton's 80 million remaining right?  Is the Davis deal really a big step up from that?

I am continually amazed that folks think that just because something hasn't been done doesn't mean it isn't the right thing to do.  Davis isn't going to contribute to a winning team in Baltimore, he isn't going to make himself tradeable.  The only gain you have by keeping him on the roster is you don't have to pay someone else 555K for the season.

 

As you know,  I’m against keeping the guy around merely because we owe him $92 mm.    That said, I’d give him some portion of the 2019 season.  You really do need to be pretty sure the guy is irremediable before flushing that money down the toilet.    

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

As you know,  I’m against keeping the guy around merely because we owe him $92 mm.    That said, I’d give him some portion of the 2019 season.  You really do need to be pretty sure the guy is irremediable before flushing that money down the toilet.    

IF he comes into spring training and looks like exactly the same guy we saw last year what is two months going to prove?

If he comes in working of stuff sure, give him a couple of months to see if he can at least be replacement level.

[Legend_Of_Joey]

The fact Tulo was in a decline prior to ankle surgery (which also has a big chance at limiting his range) and missing a whole season has me thinking "no."

I understand the "buy low, sell high" thought, but would he be better than anyone else the Orioles could get, better than Villar, or better than taking someone like Martin or finding another new guy and letting him grow in the position? 

[oriole]

I wouldn’t be opposed to it. He would have to want to come here though and considering he is going to be crazy cheap and he has some semblance of a good track record he will find a contract somewhere. I think Baltimore is a bottom of the barrel type of option for him.

[esmd]

Pass.  Dude is done.

[theobird]

2 minutes ago, oriole said:

I wouldn’t be opposed to it. He would have to want to come here though and considering he is going to be crazy cheap and he has some semblance of a good track record he will find a contract somewhere. I think Baltimore is a bottom of the barrel type of option for him.

I see it as a win-win, with no way to really lose. Tulo wants a place to start, and there are not many of those out there. His power would play up here. Its a minimum investment, if he can't play then drop him and move on. If he can play, the Orioles benefit, and Tulo benefits by putting up big numbers in a bandbox like OPACY. I like the idea.

[oriole]

Just now, theobird said:

I see it as a win-win, with no way to really lose. Tulo wants a place to start, and there are not many of those out there. His power would play up here. Its a minimum investment, if he can't play then drop him and move on. If he can play, the Orioles benefit, and Tulo benefits by putting up big numbers in a bandbox like OPACY. I like the idea.

I think it’s a clear win for the O’s...no one is really entrenched at SS so he isn’t blocking or unseating anyone, he’d be cheap, if all goes well then he could be traded at some point. I don’t think it’d quite as clear for Tulo. Not that this is a terrible place to play per se, I just see a lot of teams vying for his services with a better chance of contention and playing meaningful baseball. Next years O’s are going to be a hot mess.

[o'sfansince1970]

2 hours ago, wildbillhiccup said:

...but aren't we retooling? Honestly, I appreciate your enthusiasm, but Tulo just isn't a fit for this team. 

This is what I don't understand. A segment of fans seem to want to spend money to minimize losses net season. I don't see a nickels worth of difference between 105 losses and 95. Play the young guys and coach em up. Weed out the AAAA guys and pretenders and compete, in 3-4 years.

[wildcard]

I want to see Tolo's medical and the projection of when he will be healthy.   If he is going to be healthy in time to help this season I would sign him for the minimum.  He can have Wright or Harts roster spot.

[weams]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I want to see Tolo's medical and the projection of when he will be healthy.   If he is going to be healthy in time to help this season I would sign him for the minimum.  He can have Wright or Harts roster spot.

I would have no interest in fooling with any of this shenanigans. I am interested in seeing us try all kinds of new things to get better and to load the system with baseball talent at every level except the MLB level. 

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, o'sfansince1970 said:

This is what I don't understand. A segment of fans seem to want to spend money to minimize losses net season. I don't see a nickels worth of difference between 105 losses and 95. Play the young guys and coach em up. Weed out the AAAA guys and pretenders and compete, in 3-4 years.

I'd pitch in a nickel for 10 more wins.

And look at Mr High Expectations suggesting they might win 57 games.

[weams]

4 minutes ago, o'sfansince1970 said:

This is what I don't understand. A segment of fans seem to want to spend money to minimize losses net season. I don't see a nickels worth of difference between 105 losses and 95. Play the young guys and coach em up. Weed out the AAAA guys and pretenders and compete, in 3-4 years.

Totally wrong view of where we are.  I wanted to do anything we could to extend our window. It was slammed shut. 

[theocean]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

As you know,  I’m against keeping the guy around merely because we owe him $92 mm.    That said, I’d give him some portion of the 2019 season.  You really do need to be pretty sure the guy is irremediable before flushing that money down the toilet.    

As a baseball fan, I'm probably not going to be looking to my beloved Orioles the next few years for some well played baseball. I'm probably going to watch other teams for that, because let's face it, the O's are going to be lousy. But - I think the Orioles' rebuild with an analytic-savvy Front Office will be fun. I'm really interested to see what innovative things Elias and Co will try to do, and to see what works and doesn't work.

One of those things is seeing if they can help turn Davis around. I find it really interesting if analytics and the strategies they use to get players to use those analytics can turn a lousy player into something respectable.

So yes, I agree with everyone - watching Davis is frustrating. But, $92 million dollars is a lot of money - he isn't going anywhere at the moment. But, as baseball fans who find rebuilds interesting, Davis could be a really fascinating project to watch. He could also continue to suck indefinitely, but, who knows? That's the entire fun of watching the games!

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, theocean said:

As a baseball fan, I'm probably not going to be looking to my beloved Orioles the next few years for some well played baseball. I'm probably going to watch other teams for that, because let's face it, the O's are going to be lousy. But - I think the Orioles' rebuild with an analytic-savvy Front Office will be fun. I'm really interested to see what innovative things Elias and Co will try to do, and to see what works and doesn't work.

One of those things is seeing if they can help turn Davis around. I find it really interesting if analytics and the strategies they use to get players to use those analytics can turn a lousy player into something respectable.

So yes, I agree with everyone - watching Davis is frustrating. But, $92 million dollars is a lot of money - he isn't going anywhere at the moment. But, as baseball fans who find rebuilds interesting, Davis could be a really fascinating project to watch. He could also continue to suck indefinitely, but, who knows? That's the entire fun of watching the games!

But the money is gone either way.

Does anyone think that another team signs and redeems Davis if the O's cut him?

[Enjoy Terror]

I think the Jays throwing in the towel on Tulo says a lot about Tulo. Like, a whole lot.

They could literally just 60DL him forever, but they chose to eat the money instead. Think about that.