Doug Brocail is the Pitching Coach

[eddie83]

3 hours ago, wildcard said:

I thought the reference to Dallas Keuchel  was interesting considering that the two years that Brocail coached him his ERA was over 5.00.  But as soon as Brocail was replaced Keuchel had a breakout season.

I just finished reading Astroball last night.  Houston wanted to deal Keuchel but nobody wanted him. He was very open to analytics. That helped him turn things around.   

[eddie83]

23 hours ago, Palmoripken said:

Oh definitely on the PC front. Help me out here though, other than Wells being replaced by Jimmy Key, I don’t remember too much difference between the 1996 and 1997 staffs and don’t about the pens. I remember Myers as closer, Benitez as set up but Orosco, Mathews, Rhodes, & Mills on both teams. But yeah that 1996 team was incredible on offense. I still remember thinking Ripken-Alomar-Palmeiro was as good as it got at SS-2B-1B and that combo is in fact the inspiration for my username.

Scott Kamieniecki had a very underrated 97 season. As a number 4 starter he was valuable. 

Key was much better than Wells in 96 and Mussina and Erickson were both much better in 97 than 96.  Only bad thing about 97 was they didn’t have any production from a number 5 starter.  I remember Davey being upset Dobson was fired after 96 but clearly Miller helped.  

[DrungoHazewood]

3 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

Who would have been a "Wow" signing for pitching coach?

Leo Mazzone was probably the closest thing there ever was to a superstar pitching coach signing.  And after like 12 months of Daniel Cabrera he crawled out of the wreckage with PTSD and a shattered reputation.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Leo Mazzone was probably the closest thing there ever was to a superstar pitching coach signing.  And after like 12 months of Daniel Cabrera he crawled out of the wreckage with PTSD and a shattered reputation.

And a mean grudge.

[Frobby]

44 minutes ago, clapdiddy said:

You obviously don't read much of Dubroff's stuff.   I'm sure he's a good guy, but his writing leaves a bit to be desired.

You’re right, I don’t.    But honestly I would have expected more from a high school newspaper than a quote from “one longtime Orioles observer” with no facts or reasons to back it up.    

[Palmoripken]

1 hour ago, eddie83 said:

Scott Kamieniecki had a very underrated 97 season. As a number 4 starter he was valuable. 

Key was much better than Wells in 96 and Mussina and Erickson were both much better in 97 than 96.  Only bad thing about 97 was they didn’t have any production from a number 5 starter.  I remember Davey being upset Dobson was fired after 96 but clearly Miller helped.  

Yeah Kamieniecki was underrated. I can definitely see why Davey was upset since Dobson was a former teammate and probably friend. You’re right tho. I just wondered what it was despite having virtually the same rotation made them better in 97. Iirc 97 was Erickson’s best year. I  seem to remember him having Lenny Webster as his personal catcher rather than Hoiles who I think is underrated in O’s history.

[Palmoripken]

58 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Leo Mazzone was probably the closest thing there ever was to a superstar pitching coach signing.  And after like 12 months of Daniel Cabrera he crawled out of the wreckage with PTSD and a shattered reputation.

I really naively thought he’d do for us what he did in Atlanta. His season here really took some of the mystique away that he had. 

[bobmc]

55 minutes ago, Frobby said:

You’re right, I don’t.    But honestly I would have expected more from a high school newspaper than a quote from “one longtime Orioles observer” with no facts or reasons to back it up.    

He "clarified" his answer a bit earlier today in response to @Luke-OH:

 

[DrungoHazewood]

59 minutes ago, Frobby said:

You’re right, I don’t.    But honestly I would have expected more from a high school newspaper than a quote from “one longtime Orioles observer” with no facts or reasons to back it up.    

Admit it, that quote was from you.  Or maybe JTrea.

[DrungoHazewood]

13 minutes ago, Palmoripken said:

I really naively thought he’d do for us what he did in Atlanta. His season here really took some of the mystique away that he had. 

He failed at two things: Getting AL umps to call pitches 3" off the outside corner strikes, and getting the Orioles staff to throw any pitch regularly within 18" of their target.

[Redskins Rick]

5 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

He failed at two things: Getting AL umps to call pitches 3" off the outside corner strikes, and getting the Orioles staff to throw any pitch regularly within 18" of their target.

Leo never worked as a pitching coach again, after getting fired from the team.

This was in his wiki:

Quote

Honors

He was inducted in the Kinston Professional Baseball Hall of Fame in 1993.

In his book The Baseball Economist, J.C. Bradbury titles a chapter, "How Good is Leo Mazzone?" Using statistical analysis, he analyzes whether Mazzone had a significant impact upon the pitchers that he coached. The sample is all pitchers who have pitched at least one year under Mazzone and one year under a different pitching coach. Bradbury found that Mazzone lowered the ERA of pitchers by an average of 0.64 points, and that after leaving Mazzone, pitchers' ERA increased by an average of 0.78 points. Bradbury believes that such an impact is deserving of Hall of Fame consideration.^[5]

ESPN.com lists him number one on the list of "Top 10 Assistant Coaches of All-Time".^[1]

 

[foxfield]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

You’re right, I don’t.    But honestly I would have expected more from a high school newspaper than a quote from “one longtime Orioles observer” with no facts or reasons to back it up.    

I chuckled at the Dempsey thing above.  But honestly, the article doesn't need anything else.  The quote was limited by noting that "at least" one longtime Orioles observer was "enthusiastic." 

Yes, the lack of any substance for the quote is missing, but that may say as much about the speaker than it does about the writer, who is merely passing along a quote.  Now, I read the article after I read this thread, so that may have changed my view as well.  Funny how that can happen.

Anyway, having high expectations for reading much of anything these days is its own folly.  

[DrungoHazewood]

8 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

Leo never worked as a pitching coach again, after getting fired from the team.

This was in his wiki:

 

I've been inducted into the Callaway, Maryland professional baseball fan Hall of Fame.  

I'm not terribly convinced that JC Bradbury has any idea how to reliably tease out cause-and-effect from the roughly 77 variables that go into a pitcher's performance.  When Mazzone took over the Orioles' job their collective ERA jumped from 4.56 to 5.35.  The next year, after his teaching really took hold it dramatically improved to 5.17.  Without Leo's steady hand on the tiller it would have been over 6.00 both years.

[Frobby]

15 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I've been inducted into the Callaway, Maryland professional baseball fan Hall of Fame.  

I'm not terribly convinced that JC Bradbury has any idea how to reliably tease out cause-and-effect from the roughly 77 variables that go into a pitcher's performance.  When Mazzone took over the Orioles' job their collective ERA jumped from 4.56 to 5.35.  The next year, after his teaching really took hold it dramatically improved to 5.17.  Without Leo's steady hand on the tiller it would have been over 6.00 both years.

That ‘07 team had a respectable 4.39 ERA over the first 123 games, through August 21.    Then the wheels came off the cart:

- August 22 was the 30-3 massacre.

- Erik Bedard got hurt in his next start, ending a season in which he was a Cy Young contender.

- Steve Trachsel (4.48 ERA) was traded away on Aug. 31.

- Jeremy Guthrie got hurt in early September and missed three starts.

As a result, in late August and September we were starting the likes of Garrett Olson, Jon Leicester, Victor Santos, Kurt Birkens and Victor Zambrano, joining the lustrous Daniel Cabrera, Radhames Liz and Brian Burres, who had been installed previously. Over those last 39 games the team pitched to a 7.61 ERA.    The starters averaged 4.74 IP/game at a 7.69 ERA.

It was pretty painful to watch.    

 

[weams]

2 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Leo Mazzone was probably the closest thing there ever was to a superstar pitching coach signing.  And after like 12 months of Daniel Cabrera he crawled out of the wreckage with PTSD and a shattered reputation.

Leo told Daniel after losing his no-hitter in the ninth - "You have a couple of them before you are done."