Hard to keep Hays out of this lineup

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

7 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Object all you want about the language being used, doesn't change the actions of what's going on.  

 

 

[Rene88]

Vlad Jr needs more seasoning in the minors:)

[Moose Milligan]

14 minutes ago, Rene88 said:

Vlad Jr needs more seasoning in the minors:)

He needs a pair of running shoes and to eat a salad.

[Aristotelian]

28 minutes ago, Rene88 said:

Vlad Jr needs more seasoning in the minors:)

Case in point. Are you going to give up a year of a guy like that just to see him on opening day? A GM who plays him should fired for malpractice. I don't know how it can be considered "manipulative" if you are doing the obvious right thing to do under the rules.

[Frobby]

12 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Case in point. Are you going to give up a year of a guy like that just to see him on opening day? A GM who plays him should fired for malpractice. I don't know how it can be considered "manipulative" if you are doing the obvious right thing to do under the rules.

That’s the very definition of manipulation.    Nobody’s saying the team shouldn’t do it.    But of course  it’s manipulation (or would have been, but for his recent injury).

[UpstateNYfan]

Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. In "baseball years", life is short. You are not only manipulating service time, but manipulating that player's mind, the more dangerous think to mess with IMO. 

[Bahama O's Fan]

Just curious, what is wrong with the word "manipulation"? Is manipulation always a bad thing? A GM should do what is best for the team. What is best right now? Saving his service time? Having him there opening day to sell a few more tickets? Boost his confidence?

[DrungoHazewood]

8 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

Case in point. Are you going to give up a year of a guy like that just to see him on opening day? A GM who plays him should fired for malpractice. I don't know how it can be considered "manipulative" if you are doing the obvious right thing to do under the rules. 

If not manipulation then what is the term for not fielding your best 25-man roster on purpose, intentionally losing more games today, so that you can theoretically gain more wins in six or seven years?  You are taking advantage of a loophole in the rules that allows you to gain from playing worse baseball.  Baseball has set up a system by which teams can benefit by violating the basic ethos of sport, which is that everyone is doing their best to win today.  Manipulation?  I don't know.  Right?  In a purely transactional sense, I suppose.  It also cuts away a few more of those bonds between team and fan.  But they clearly don't care about winning as many baseball games as they can this year.

[Frobby]

Not that hard to keep him out of the lineup, apparently.    

May 16 is the day we can call him up and not have him finish the season with a full year of service time.    Let’s see if he hits well enough in the minors to deserve a call-up by then.    

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

If not manipulation then what is the term for not fielding your best 25-man roster on purpose, intentionally losing more games today, so that you can theoretically gain more wins in six or seven years?  You are taking advantage of a loophole in the rules that allows you to gain from playing worse baseball.  Baseball has set up a system by which teams can benefit by violating the basic ethos of sport, which is that everyone is doing their best to win today.  Manipulation?  I don't know.  Right?  In a purely transactional sense, I suppose.  It also cuts away a few more of those bonds between team and fan.  But they clearly don't care about winning as many baseball games as they can this year.

Cuts away bonds between team and fan?    That seems a bit dramatic.    I’m just hoping Hays proves in the minors that he should be up here.

[Can_of_corn]

9 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Not that hard to keep him out of the lineup, apparently.    

May 16 is the day we can call him up and not have him finish the season with a full year of service time.    Let’s see if he hits well enough in the minors to deserve a call-up by then.    

Doesn't seem like in game performance is a factor.

[ReclaimTheCrown]

I’m excited that Austin Hays showed a strong return to form this spring and that he has really re-emerged, but sending him down is the right call. And to me, there’s not much question. Like that old Stanford study...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_marshmallow_experiment

Hope he mashes his way back to Baltimore by mid-May.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, ReclaimTheCrown said:

I’m excited that Austin Hays showed a strong return to form this spring and that he has really re-emerged, but sending him down is the right call. And to me, there’s not much question. Like that old Stanford study...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_marshmallow_experiment

Hope he mashes his way back to Baltimore by mid-May.

I'm still going to disagree.

Odds are good that the current rules won't apply to Hays when they matter and I feel that if you think a player is talented enough that you want to screw with his service time you would be much better off signing him long term.  It's a lot cheaper than four years of arbitration.

[ReclaimTheCrown]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm still going to disagree.

Odds are good that the current rules won't apply to Hays when they matter and I feel that if you think a player is talented enough that you want to screw with his service time you would be much better off signing him long term.  It's a lot cheaper than four years of arbitration.

I’m sure you will, and that’s fair.

On the point about the rules changing, I don’t doubt that may happen, but I think you still have to operate under the rules as they currently stand.

On locking him up early, I’m all for doing that, and I struggle to think sending him down this spring would seriously impair our ability to do so down the line. If he and his agent deem it in his interest a couple years from now, they’ll do it.

The other thing is that this kid is just coming off a nightmare year last year. And yes he is crushing this spring, but we’re talking about 37 ABs. That’s like a week and a half of ball. 

Sure, if service time wasn’t a thing, he’d likely be in Baltimore. I just don’t think it’s so obvious a call that we should take the marshmallow/cookie/donut right now rather than waiting a month and a half.

[Frobby]

9 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm still going to disagree.

Odds are good that the current rules won't apply to Hays when they matter and I feel that if you think a player is talented enough that you want to screw with his service time you would be much better off signing him long term.  It's a lot cheaper than four years of arbitration.

There’s nothing to stop them from signing him long term.   They are in a more advantageous position to do so if he may not become a free agent until after the 2025 season instead of the 2024 season.    (And I said “may not” to account for any changes to the CBA in 2021, though it’s purely speculative whether the service time rules will change then and who those changes will apply to.)   Evan Longoria is the poster boy for this, having signed a long term deal on April 18 of his rookie year just after the Rays had delayed his call up long so that he wouldn’t earn a full year of service.    

In any event, let’s just see what happens from here:

- Does Hays start in AA or AAA?

- How well does he play?

- How quickly does he get called up, if at all?