How many current Orioles would not be on another ML roster?

[sportsfan8703]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

Unless I’ve missed something, Sisco has an option next year.    He’ll be out of options in 2021.

Good to know.  He may need both of those years in AAA with his defense. 

The thing that bothers me the most about Elias this offseason is I don’t think he worked the “realistic” pitching depth for this season spots 12-20. He had the #1 waiver spot in the AL all offseason and was quiet until ST basically. He also chose to keep Arajuo which burned out what little bit of pitching we have. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Aglets said:

Hmmm, we must be using a different definition of the word "repeat" then.  What is your definition?

I wouldn't use the term repeating a level if the player played well under half a season at that level.  I don't think Diaz "repeated" AA last season since he only played 30 games there in 2017.

 

[Frobby]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Do you think a player like Stewart needs to spend more time in the minors?

Do you think Diaz needs to repeat AA or do you think he can learn what he needs to learn at AAA?

 

I don’t know.    I do know that Diaz posted a .732 OPS after being traded to the Orioles and that the EL is less hitter-friendly than the TL (though not drastic like IL/PCL).   I do know that Stewart posted a .716 OPS in the IL last year.    None of those things tell me that it was important to start those players at that level again, but they also don’t make those decisions appear ridiculous.  Consider that the O’s started Mancini in AA in 2016 after he’d posted a .981 OPS in 84 games there in 2015; and they started Hays in AA last year after he’d posted a .960 OPS there in 2017.   

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I don’t know.    I do know that Diaz posted a .732 OPS after being traded to the Orioles and that the EL is less hitter-friendly than the TL (though not drastic like IL/PCL).   I do know that Stewart posted a .716 OPS in the IL last year.    None of those things tell me that it was important to start those players at that level again, but they also don’t make those decisions appear ridiculous.  Consider that the O’s started Mancini in AA in 2016 after he’d posted a .981 OPS in 84 games there in 2015; and they started Hays in AA last year after he’d posted a .960 OPS there in 2017.   

When I mentioned Diaz's K and Walk totals with Bowie it was explained to me how his time at Bowie was a small sample size and to look at the big picture.  /shrug

With Stewart it is looking at the player and his game.  He's 25.  He put up a 143 OPS+ in Baltimore last year.  His .5 WAR was higher than what Jones did.  His game is finished.  Either he can contribute at the ML level or he can't.  More time at AAA is just cutting into whatever peak he might have.

[Frobby]

10 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

When I mentioned Diaz's K and Walk totals with Bowie it was explained to me how his time at Bowie was a small sample size and to look at the big picture.  /shrug

With Stewart it is looking at the player and his game.  He's 25.  He put up a 143 OPS+ in Baltimore last year.  His .5 WAR was higher than what Jones did.  His game is finished.  Either he can contribute at the ML level or he can't.  More time at AAA is just cutting into whatever peak he might have.

So if your analysis of Stewart is correct, what do you think is the ulterior motive for keeping him down?     You’ve been pretty consistent in arguing that saving service time doesn’t make sense for a player like that.    What other motive do you see?   Perhaps it’s just as simple as thinking Dwight Smith is probably the better player and they want to give him the first shot.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

So if your analysis of Stewart is correct, what do you think is the ulterior motive for keeping him down?     You’ve been pretty consistent in arguing that saving service time doesn’t make sense for a player like that.    What other motive do you see?   Perhaps it’s just as simple as thinking Dwight Smith is probably the better player and they want to give him the first shot.

Simple.

I think Elias sees the current pitching and doesn't want to use any service time of anyone who might be a part of the team going forward.

Doesn't speak well of Mullins if I'm correct.

Well be pretty easy to see if I'm correct as the season unfurls.

As for Smith or Stewart?  I'd be starting Stewart instead of Mancini in the outfield.

[HowAboutThat]

Its a lot easier to think about the guys would be on another roster, instead of those who wouldn’t. We have lots of guys who might be the 23rd 25th guys on most rosters. but probably only have two who could start: Villar and Mancini, and possibly Givens in the pen.

at the moment, that’s it. Everyone else is wait-and-see.

[Frobby]

24 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Simple.

I think Elias sees the current pitching and doesn't want to use any service time of anyone who might be a part of the team going forward.

Doesn't speak well of Mullins if I'm correct.

Well be pretty easy to see if I'm correct as the season unfurls.

As for Smith or Stewart?  I'd be starting Stewart instead of Mancini in the outfield.

I haven’t bought into your theory, but in any event I think the O’s don’t really have options in CF other than Mullins right now.    Rickard can get by on a part-time basis but surely we wouldn’t want him out there every day.   

As you say, events may corroborate your theory.    Time will tell.    

[tntoriole]

42 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Simple.

I think Elias sees the current pitching and doesn't want to use any service time of anyone who might be a part of the team going forward.

Doesn't speak well of Mullins if I'm correct.

Well be pretty easy to see if I'm correct as the season unfurls.

As for Smith or Stewart?  I'd be starting Stewart instead of Mancini in the outfield.

Stewart and Cisco and Diaz have all started off slowly at the plate at Norfolk and Bowie.  Stewart and Cisco have 2 hits between them and Diaz slow getting started too. 

They will warm up soon and likely come up at some point this season.  

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, tntoriole said:

Stewart and Cisco and Diaz have all started off slowly at the plate at Norfolk and Bowie.  Stewart and Cisco have 2 hits between them and Diaz slow getting started too. 

They will warm up soon and likely come up at some point this season.  

Do you think that has any relevance to well, anything?  Oh no, Sisco is one for 10 with a walk. 

I've already said I am not at all sure Stewart or Sisco sticks in the majors, I do however think that a season like this one is when you find out.

[tntoriole]

11 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Do you think that has any relevance to well, anything?  Oh no, Sisco is one for 10 with a walk. 

I've already said I am not at all sure Stewart or Sisco sticks in the majors, I do however think that a season like this one is when you find out.

You think it is service time, though ME said it isn’t more than once.  Maybe he thinks they just still need to demonstrate more in developmental level than they have shown.  Maybe he thinks if they can’t show more at AAA this year, then they are not sticking either.  Or maybe he is just being not straight with the media and us about it.   And while 1 for 10 means nothing, it still doesn’t help them in being called up right now, today, before Oakland versus later in the year. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, tntoriole said:

You think it is service time, though ME said it isn’t more than once.  Maybe he thinks they just still need to demonstrate more in developmental level than they have shown.  Maybe he thinks if they can’t show more at AAA this year, then they are not sticking either.  Or maybe he is just being not straight with the media and us about it.   And while 1 for 10 means nothing, it still doesn’t help them in being called up right now, today, before Oakland versus later in the year. 

Once again, do you think Stewart needs more time in the minors or do you think he's as developed as he is going to get?  What do you think he might need to work on?

I can see a situation where a person thinks that Sisco can somehow finally start making strides on defense in the minors this year but Stewart?  He's as finished as he's going to get.  He had success at the ML level last year.  Maybe his game is better suited to the majors than it is the minors ( I theorized as much last year).

Dude is 25. 

[Satyr3206]

This is why I hate hypothetical questions. You can answer anyway you want and you'll still be wrong.

[tntoriole]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Once again, do you think Stewart needs more time in the minors or do you think he's as developed as he is going to get?  What do you think he might need to work on?

I can see a situation where a person thinks that Sisco can somehow finally start making strides on defense in the minors this year but Stewart?  He's as finished as he's going to get.  He had success at the ML level last year.  Maybe his game is better suited to the majors than it is the minors ( I theorized as much last year).

Dude is 25. 

It is the analytics that count.   lol.    No, you are probably right.  But i don’t think Elias was going to start the season with Trey playing only as the DH.  He was going to have to play Davis as he has been doing and with Dwight Smith and no CF backup except Rickard...it became a numbers crunch as to Stewart getting any regular time playing...Once Davis is gone, Trumbo is gone, Rickard can go, Mullins either sinks or swims....then Stewart up here will become likely.   Until then I think he just wants him playing every day versus in and out here. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

It is the analytics that count.   lol.    No, you are probably right.  But i don’t think Elias was going to start the season with Trey playing only as the DH.  He was going to have to play Davis as he has been doing and with Dwight Smith and no CF backup except Rickard...it became a numbers crunch as to Stewart getting any regular time playing...Once Davis is gone, Trumbo is gone, Rickard can go, Mullins either sinks or swims....then Stewart up here will become likely.   Until then I think he just wants him playing every day versus in and out here. 

So Stewart is going to be stuck in Norfolk for three more years?