The most exciting 15.7 seconds in years

[makoman]

4 minutes ago, Number5 said:

Mental mistakes aren't officially scored as errors.  The physical is scored, not the mental.  Was it foolish?  Yes, but you're just not going to see those plays scored as errors.

Yeah, Rule 9.12(a)(1)  Comment reads, in part

Quote

The official scorer shall not score mental mistakes or misjudgments as errors unless a specific rule prescribes otherwise. A fielder’s mental mistake that leads to a physical misplay— such as throwing the ball into the stands or rolling the ball to the pitcher’s mound, mistakenly believing there to be three outs, and thereby allowing a runner or runners to advance— shall not be considered a mental mistake for purposes of this rule and the official scorer shall charge a fielder committing such a mistake with an error. The official scorer shall not charge an error if the pitcher fails to cover first base on a play, thereby allowing a batter-runner to reach first base safely. The official scorer shall not charge an error to a fielder who incor- rectly throws to the wrong base on a play.

I guess if you want to change the official rules that's fine, but I don't really care. It's fine the way it is IMO.

[BohKnowsBmore]

1 hour ago, Aristotelian said:

Let's talk about that! I thought that was a fascinating play. Even though it didn't work out, it said a few things about the 2020 O's:

1) Chris Davis, you are on notice. The team has no faith in your ability to get a big hit. You are not special. We will find other ways to score when you are up, even at great risk of losing your bat  (That said, as a result of the play he ended up leading off against a RHP and drew a big walk). 

2) Say what you will about the front office strategy, the players on the field are trying to win.  

3) Even when things don't work, they keep playing.

4) If the players or coaches pick up on something, they have the green light to go for it. Would be interesting to know who saw what and whether this was practiced. 

He may be on notice, but this isn't the play that says it. There were two outs, so it's moreso taking advantage of the extreme shift teams put on Davis. It's really no different in many ways than the ask that Davis learn to bunt proficiently against the shift.

[jabba72]

How long has it been since there's been a steal of Home and an inside the park HR in the same game? Anyone know? 

[Aristotelian]

MLB clearly needs a Really Bad Play metric. CofC can be official scorer.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

He may be on notice, but this isn't the play that says it. There were two outs, so it's moreso taking advantage of the extreme shift teams put on Davis. It's really no different in many ways than the ask that Davis learn to bunt proficiently against the shift.

He's not on notice.

He's still starting most games despite being a liability.

 

[BohKnowsBmore]

16 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

It was definitely not a good play! By the current rules/norms regarding error scoring, it was not an Error. Hopefully it got counted as negative dWAR/DRS. 

The popup was an even worse play but was more of a miscommunication than an "error". Still, Segura did call for it and go for it. Again, terrible play, worse than many actual scored Errors, but I guess not an Error as they are defined. 

Depending on the advnced metric, it definitely should/will be. That's a play with a high probability of being a single (probably close to 99% chance based on location and exit velo). Had the speedy CF made it there, it would be a five-star (or whatever the term is) play. A single would have been to expectation, anything additional, in this case it being played to a HR, should penalize the fielder. Probably something close to ~.8-.9 runs.

[Aristotelian]

3 minutes ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

He may be on notice, but this isn't the play that says it. There were two outs, so it's moreso taking advantage of the extreme shift teams put on Davis. It's really no different in many ways than the ask that Davis learn to bunt proficiently against the shift.

If Davis was being at all productive, there is no way they would have tried this, even with two outs and two strikes. Maybe I am wrong but I highly doubt they do this if it is Nunez or Alberto up.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Aristotelian said:

MLB clearly needs a Really Bad Play metric. CofC can be official scorer.

Whatever dude.  I am of the view that egregious mental errors should count as errors.  I don't think that's some odd fringe viewpoint.

[Aristotelian]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Whatever dude.  I am of the view that egregious mental errors should count as errors.  I don't think that's some odd fringe viewpoint.

I was agreeing with you.

[BohKnowsBmore]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

He's not on notice.

He's still starting most games despite being a liability.

 

Much like you on the previous page, I was trying to be cautious in my wording

Didn't want to get hung up on that part of it - ultimately the team stealing home there, particularly with two outs - is not a shot across the bow at Davis. Even with a great hitter at the plate, if you think you have something like a 50-50 shot there, you take it all day every day

[BohKnowsBmore]

3 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

If Davis was being at all productive, there is no way they would have tried this, even with two outs and two strikes. Maybe I am wrong but I highly doubt they do this if it is Nunez or Alberto up.

The situation would be completely different due to the shifts employed, which is what enabled the runner to be halfway down the line in the first place. I guarantee that if the Phils nonsensically shifted like that against either of those two, with that amount of speed at third, AND two outs, I'm sure the O's would try the same thing. 

[LocoChris]

26 minutes ago, makoman said:

Yeah, Rule 9.12(a)(1)  Comment reads, in part

I guess if you want to change the official rules that's fine, but I don't really care. It's fine the way it is IMO.

That absolutely needs to be changed. 

[LocoChris]

12 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Whatever dude.  I am of the view that egregious mental errors should count as errors.  I don't think that's some odd fringe viewpoint.

It’s not. 

[Yardball85]

12 minutes ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

The situation would be completely different due to the shifts employed, which is what enabled the runner to be halfway down the line in the first place. I guarantee that if the Phils nonsensically shifted like that against either of those two, with that amount of speed at third, AND two outs, I'm sure the O's would try the same thing. 

I think it had a TON to do with Davis being up.  Sure, the shifts and whatnot helped, but if Santander was batting from the left side, and there were shifts, this likely does not happen.

 

That said, I loved the play, especially with the awful Davis up at bat.  Almost worked.

[Aristotelian]

6 minutes ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

The situation would be completely different due to the shifts employed, which is what enabled the runner to be halfway down the line in the first place. I guarantee that if the Phils nonsensically shifted like that against either of those two, with that amount of speed at third, AND two outs, I'm sure the O's would try the same thing. 

Good point about the shift, but Davis is not the only LHB who faces extreme shifts. The fact that he is hitting under .200 the last two years must have something to do with the calculation. Would be interesting to compare other steals of home in that situation but I don't know of any.