Washington Post Examines Effects of Increased Pitch Velocity on Baseball

[drjohnnyfeva]

1 hour ago, AnythingO's said:

So what ever happened to Rick Peterson's (sp) biomechanics lab? He seened to fade.away post Toronto when DD lost favor. It would seem to be right down analytics alley to have him run tests on every minor league pitcher likely to be on the 40 man.

Idk, I think the whole league is going a direction.  So once that tack is taken, it sticks for a time.  Pitching speed has been in fashion for decades.  This is nothing new.  What's new is kids putting pressure on their bodies to throw at the top speed of their delivery despite anything else know THAT's what MLB scouts are looking for.  AND, those are the guys who are showcased at EVERY level. 

I've wanted to see the heir apparent to Greg Maddox for years.  THEY aren't looking for him.  Well, unless it's a knuckleballer.

Pitching will always be about placement and movement and psychology.  If speed comes with that, great.  I would love to see a kid that can move the ball in the zone and has natural ball movement coached by a top notch pitching coach from the 70's or a devotee of one of those guys.  I wonder what the outcome would be?  Speed is great.  It ain't everything.  Especially now where every kid is looking to hit the heat.  Slow it down and turn the world upside down.

[Hallas]

3 hours ago, Uli2001 said:

Randy Johnson was a freak in his time. These days people would hardly give a double take. It's routine now.

Randy Johnson would still be a freak today.  The list of pitchers that can throw 99 in the bottom of the 9th in their 130th pitch is pretty much nonexistent.  The velocity spike is at least partially fuelled by the increased use of relief pitchers.

[BohKnowsBmore]

8 hours ago, El Gordo said:

If I had to choose between 100 mph FB and Maddox like command I'd choose Maddox.

If I had to choose between a crafty lefty with great command and Randy Johnson like power pitching I'd choose Johnson.

[Uli2001]

9 hours ago, El Gordo said:

If I had to choose between 100 mph FB and Maddox like command I'd choose Maddox.

I would like to have both in my rotation, but I will say that Maddox at his best was pretty much unhittable. There was a game, one of the very first interleague games, where he shut down the very high-powered offense the O's had in 1997 if I am not mistaken. It was 2-0 Braves and Maddox pitched a CG if memory doesn't fail me.

[Uli2001]

1 hour ago, Hallas said:

Randy Johnson would still be a freak today.  The list of pitchers that can throw 99 in the bottom of the 9th in their 130th pitch is pretty much nonexistent.  The velocity spike is at least partially fuelled by the increased use of relief pitchers.

I was referring to the 100-mph fastball (regardless of inning). Lots of pitchers have one now. Of course, he would still be dominant today.

[Cumberbundy]

5 hours ago, drjohnnyfeva said:

Pitching will always be about placement and movement and psychology.  If speed comes with that, great.  I would love to see a kid that can move the ball in the zone and has natural ball movement coached by a top notch pitching coach from the 70's or a devotee of one of those guys.  I wonder what the outcome would be?  Speed is great.  It ain't everything.  Especially now where every kid is looking to hit the heat.  Slow it down and turn the world upside down.

 

Velocity is king, but a good change up is the best pitch in the game.

 

You’d enjoy watching Soroka pitch.

 

 

[Cumberbundy]

 

 

[Hallas]

18 hours ago, Uli2001 said:

I was referring to the 100-mph fastball (regardless of inning). Lots of pitchers have one now. Of course, he would still be dominant today.

Sure, but there were pitchers that could throw as hard as Johnson could even in his day.  He was special because he did it as a lefty, because his height made his fastball seem even faster (closer to home on release) and he could do it with his 130th pitch and not hurt himself.

[Uli2001]

1 hour ago, Hallas said:

Sure, but there were pitchers that could throw as hard as Johnson could even in his day.  He was special because he did it as a lefty, because his height made his fastball seem even faster (closer to home on release) and he could do it with his 130th pitch and not hurt himself.

There weren't many pitchers that could throw as hard as him consistently. Back then a 95 MPH fastball was considered high heat. These days, it's meh.

[Jammer7]

10 hours ago, Uli2001 said:

There weren't many pitchers that could throw as hard as him consistently. Back then a 95 MPH fastball was considered high heat. These days, it's meh.

Agreed. 10-15 years ago, radar guns changed. The older guns measured the velocity of the pitch at the plate, or a short distance in front. Now, the newer guns get it right out of the hand. It may account for a few of the mph rise.  

That is not to discount all of the modern training techniques and the sheer size of pitchers today. There are many more young men throwing harder at earlier ages than ever before. Go to a national travel ball showcase, you’ll see several kids 16-18 yoa top out between 93-97. There are “pitching gurus” who have kids on bands, weighted balls and throwing programs from 10 years old. 

The biggest changes are not with the top end velocity, but the number of pitchers who have it. When a seven man bullpen has its weakest link at t95, that’s a significant change. 

[DrungoHazewood]

On 5/26/2019 at 9:44 AM, Can_of_corn said:

Nice bit of info for the is velocity the most important debate.

I was reading another piece yesterday about the Driveline Baseball guys outside of Seattle.  I don't remember the exact quote, but it was something like "People say you shouldn't worry about velocity, just learn how to pitch.  That's just wrong."

I've seen bits and pieces of data ever since comprehensive data has been available strongly suggesting a strong inverse relationship between velocity and runs allowed.

[DrungoHazewood]

On 5/26/2019 at 6:23 PM, drjohnnyfeva said:

Idk, I think the whole league is going a direction.  So once that tack is taken, it sticks for a time.  Pitching speed has been in fashion for decades.  This is nothing new.  What's new is kids putting pressure on their bodies to throw at the top speed of their delivery despite anything else know THAT's what MLB scouts are looking for.  AND, those are the guys who are showcased at EVERY level. 

I've wanted to see the heir apparent to Greg Maddox for years.  THEY aren't looking for him.  Well, unless it's a knuckleballer.

Pitching will always be about placement and movement and psychology.  If speed comes with that, great.  I would love to see a kid that can move the ball in the zone and has natural ball movement coached by a top notch pitching coach from the 70's or a devotee of one of those guys.  I wonder what the outcome would be?  Speed is great.  It ain't everything.  Especially now where every kid is looking to hit the heat.  Slow it down and turn the world upside down.

There was much debate about the legality of Jim Creighton's "speedballs", and how no man could throw so hard or be so unhittable with a delivery that adheres to the rules.  This was circa 1860.

We may wish for "scientific baseball" to hold sway, for placement and movement and psychology to be the overwhelming factors.  I grew up with the O's hammering home that finesse wins out over brute speed.  Mike Flanagan and Scott McGregor were, at times, more effective than Nolan Ryan.  But the data clearly indicates that there is a very strong relationship between velocity and how many runs you allow.

[DrungoHazewood]

Here's my solution: Each foot you move the mound back is the rough equivalent of taking 2 mph off an average pitch.  In terms of reaction time.  Major League Baseball should move the mound back a foot a year, while also deadening the ball by (someone will have to do the math) X% a year.  When you've reached the equilibrium point you want (say, six strikeouts per team per game) you stop.

The downside to this approach is that it does nothing to stop the ever-increasing race for max velocity.  Pitchers will continue to optimize deliveries and throw as hard as they can as long as they can.  They'll just be racing for a longer equivalent reaction time than today.

The only way I can think of to stop the velocity contest is to hughely disincentivize max effort pitching by strictly limiting the number of pitchers a team can carry and use.  If you can only carry eight pitchers you could try max effort pitching, but your team will be out of healthy pitchers in three weeks.  In the 1870s pitchers threw 600 innings.  Not because they were supermen, but because they carried one or two pitchers per team and they adjusted to the environment.  They threw at what we'd consider 50% or 60% effort most of the time.

[Can_of_corn]

Would be a lot more seamless to just deaden the ball.  

[Cumberbundy]