Roch: Pitching In

[Going Underground]

9 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Leo Mazzone was the best pitching coach in baseball as long as he had great pitchers.  If Texas pitchers had low strikeout totals I think it had everything to do with their pitchers and virtually nothing to do with Brocail.   Our pitchers aren't good.  There is a power explosion in MLB this year. 2+2=4.  

Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz?  Not as good as Hess,Eshelman and Brooks.

[Moose Milligan]

It's also the pitchers job to make the batter uncomfortable.  Yes, upset their timing, change speeds, eye levels, etc.  But make them uncomfortable, too.  IMO, that always meant not letting any batters feet get completely comfortable...don't let them "dig in."

 

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Brocail sounds a little frustrated.    I think he’s the most vulnerable of our coaches to being replaced.  It’s a lousy staff, but 5.91 ERA?

The Orioles basically have a AAA pitching staff in the Year of All The Home Runs.  Blaming Brocail and replacing him would be like firing the guy in charge of Granada's military for losing to the US in '83.

[DrungoHazewood]

41 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

The old timers weren't nearly ad tough as you and they remember. Drysdale and Gibson didn't hit thousands of hitters and they certainly didn't stop hitters like Frank Robinson stand hanging over the inside corner.  The new generation is always soft and then when they become the older generation they become tough again and the next generation is soft.  Ty Cobb probably thought the players in the 40's and 50's were soft.  Those players thought players in the 80's were soft.  Now it's funny to hear players in the 80's talk about how much tougher they were back then.  

I've posted this before, but you can literally find quotes from the 1880s, talking about how nobody will ever measure up to the skill, dedication and toughness of the epic baseball stars of the 1860s.  "In 1885 it's all about making a quick buck and taking shortcuts."  Repeat for every era since.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, Oriole1940 said:

The oldtimers had no problem backing hitters off the plate or worse, but since political correctness has taken over, if they look crosseyed at the batter, they  get a warning.    The radio announcers back then would  say something like. man he stuck it in his ear on that pitch.   And of course. if the hitter was real good as many were, they would not be intimidated by the high inside pitch, and would hit the next pitch out of the park.  All of that drama has long since been taken out of the game of baseball.  No comparison.  

Don Drysdale averaged 9 HBP per 200 innings, and he led the league several times.  The average MLB pitcher today hits right around nine batters per 200 innings.  So your average 2019 major leaguer, who you think it terrified of pitching inside, plunks as many batters as the worst offenders from the good ol' days.

[Tx Oriole]

1 hour ago, mdbdotcom said:

He didn't discuss why he hasn't been able to fix any of it in more than 2/3 of a season. Sounds like a guy making excuses for coaching a pitching staff that produces exceptionally bad results..

Isnt all his fault. The pitchers are pretty bad. 

[clapdiddy]

The problem with this year's staff is that they pretty much all stink.   End of story.

I think a few guys have some talent to be decent pitchers, but they have command issues and the only person that can fix that is the pitcher.  

[Tx Oriole]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

The old timers weren't nearly ad tough as you and they remember. Drysdale and Gibson didn't hit thousands of hitters and they certainly didn't stop hitters like Frank Robinson stand hanging over the inside corner.  The new generation is always soft and then when they become the older generation they become tough again and the next generation is soft.  Ty Cobb probably thought the players in the 40's and 50's were soft.  Those players thought players in the 80's were soft.  Now it's funny to hear players in the 80's talk about how much tougher they were back then.  

Gibson most likely didn’t give a damn if he hit a guy either. I still think players in the 50’s and 60’s were a pretty tough bunch. I sure as hell wouldn’t want to have faced Palmer, Drysdale and Gibson. Yes players back then got hits and homeruns off them. But there is a reason they were successful. Hall of Fame pitchers. 

[Going Underground]

The current rate of 0.41 batters hit by a pitch per team game is the highest since 1900, the same year that the Brooklyn Superbas led by Wee Willie Keeler won the Chronicle-Telegraph Cup. (There was no American League yet and thus no World Series.)

 

This was an article from the middle of the year.Not sure if it has gone up or down. The Washington Post also  did an article that players wear more protection so they don't mind as much getting hit.Crowd the plate more and dive into the pitch 

[Camden_yardbird]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

Brocail sounds a little frustrated.    I think he’s the most vulnerable of our coaches to being replaced.  It’s a lousy staff, but 5.91 ERA?

I think this is probably his "I want to keep my job" interview.

It is worth noting that this is an effective strategy that has worked elsewhere, Pittsburgh for instance.  It is definitely hard to implement but also shouldnt be as difficult as this interview is letting on.  It does require buy in from the hitters on the team too.  More pitches in means more hit batters, more retaliation and more bean ball wars.  We will know this strategy is actually being implemented when the Orioles end up with benches cleared against a division opponent.

They really need to get the pitchers to do this with regularity, but it's also not the only path forward.  The Ray's have pitched up with some success.  And like it or not the Mazzone down and away strategy worked too.  You just have to make sure hitters arent hanging over the plate on you.

[weams]

2 hours ago, RZNJ said:

Nothing.  Pitching is about making it difficult for the hitter to hit.  Sounds pretty simple.  Being unpredictable, changing speeds, locating well are all good things.

It's import to get a first strike. If an offspeed is the best chance of that fine. For most, it's the fastball. And most guys are swinging. 

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, esmd said:

Wow is right!  That sounded to me like an indictment of not only some on the pitching staff, but also the catchers.  

I see this all the time in the minors as well. Catchers love sitting low and away for some reason and they rarely call for pitches in. Pitchers like Wells and Lowther do a good job of pitching to all quadrants of the plate which is what all the pitchers should be doing regardless of fastball velocity and stuff.

[AZRon]

6 hours ago, clapdiddy said:

The problem with this year's staff is that they pretty much all stink.   End of story.

I think a few guys have some talent to be decent pitchers, but they have command issues and the only person that can fix that is the pitcher.  

How many times does an effective pitcher throw the pitch within 1 baseball's distance of his target?

Christy Mathewson practiced doing that. When he was successful at doing it in games, he was praised for his "command".

Watch the Oriole pitchers during the game and count how many times they are "successful at hitting their target".

As to command, if a pitcher is ineffective, it could be blamed:
on the "metrics" for bad targeting based on count and batter's strength/weaknesses
and/or
on the catcher for placing the wrong target
and/or
the pitcher's inability to "consistently hit his target"

I'm betting the latter

Few major league hitters are consistently overpowered by velocity or an "unusual" pitch.

Athletic pitchers should be able to improve their command by effective practice techniques.

So, the Orioles' current conglomeration of pitchers:
is insufficiently athletic to benefit from practice regimens
or
the practice regimens are ineffective at or insufficient to improving their ability to command a pitch

I'm betting on the latter.

Can any of the Orioles Hangout staff provide their observations on the pitching practice regimens?

 

Edited August 15, 2019 by AZRon

[weams]

13 minutes ago, AZRon said:

 

So, the Orioles' current conglomeration of pitchers:
is insufficiently athletic to benefit from practice regimens
or
the practice regimens are ineffective at or insufficient to improving their ability to command a pitch

I'm betting on the latter.

 

I'm betting on the former. So little actual talent. 

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, Going Underground said:

The current rate of 0.41 batters hit by a pitch per team game is the highest since 1900, the same year that the Brooklyn Superbas led by Wee Willie Keeler won the Chronicle-Telegraph Cup. (There was no American League yet and thus no World Series.)

 

This was an article from the middle of the year.Not sure if it has gone up or down. The Washington Post also  did an article that players wear more protection so they don't mind as much getting hit.Crowd the plate more and dive into the pitch 

It's about at the same rate, I think 0.4 right now.  Which is double what it was when I was born 48 years ago.  In 1946, when all the tough-as-nails soldiers came back from the war, MLB saw 0.13 HBP per game.  In Ruth's era it was about 0.2.  

As you noted the last time it was this high fistfights with opponents, umpires, and even fans were pretty common, and teams played in primitive wooden parks.