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Is Sisco Toast?

Aristotelian

By Aristotelian
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Posted by Tony-OH,

While I respect Hyde, I think he was being a little gracious. Sisco's percentiles according to statcast in 2019:  Pop time to 2B: 2.10 (9th percentile) Framing: (7th percentile) MPH: 79.1 MPH (23rd percentile)  Add in that he's not a good tagger at plays on the plate, and his game awareness is below average, and I'm not sure we're looking at a guy who is starting from "average". Can he improve? Sure. How much? Probably not enough to be an everyday catcher in the big leagues unles

Sisco's Statcast grades

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Tony-OH Hangout Grand Counsel

Tony-OH

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On 9/2/2019 at 2:26 PM, MurphDogg said:

Sisco has an average arm, he threw out 9 of his first 18 at the MLB level.

 

 

Yes, he can still improve, per Hyde,

 

While I respect Hyde, I think he was being a little gracious.

Sisco's percentiles according to statcast in 2019: 
Pop time to 2B: 2.10 (9th percentile)
Framing: (7th percentile)
MPH: 79.1 MPH (23rd percentile) 

Add in that he's not a good tagger at plays on the plate, and his game awareness is below average, and I'm not sure we're looking at a guy who is starting from "average". Can he improve? Sure. How much? Probably not enough to be an everyday catcher in the big leagues unless his stick improves greatly and a team lives with the defense.



 

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MurphDogg
MurphDogg

I see no reason to make a change at this point. Hope he gets better but it isn't like we need to go out and make a trade for a long term solution at catcher. Give him another year, he and Severino wil

Ruzious
Ruzious

Which is where all-star catcher James McCann was when he was 24 - and actually better than McCann was at 25 - and about the same as all-star catcher JT Realmuto was at 24.  It takes more time for catc

DrungoHazewood
DrungoHazewood

My oblique reference to John Bale was because he was traded for Jayson Werth.  O's first round pick in '97, was a top 50 prospect in all of baseball in 2000.  The O's traded him for that mediocre LOOG

Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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59 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

While I respect Hyde, I think he was being a little gracious.

Sisco's percentiles according to statcast in 2019: 
Pop time to 2B: 2.10 (9th percentile)
Framing: (7th percentile)
MPH: 79.1 MPH (23rd percentile) 

Add in that he's not a good tagger at plays on the plate, and his game awareness is below average, and I'm not sure we're looking at a guy who is starting from "average". Can he improve? Sure. How much? Probably not enough to be an everyday catcher in the big leagues unless his stick improves greatly and a team lives with the defense.
 

Given the evidence you cited, I’d say you are a master of understatement with the bolded part.   But, it can’t hurt to give him 2020 to develop further.    

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SteveA Hangout Grand Counsel

SteveA

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29 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Given the evidence you cited, I’d say you are a master of understatement with the bolded part.   But, it can’t hurt to give him 2020 to develop further.    

Right, and what we are really giving him in that case  is another year to also prove that his bat can play at the MLB level at a non-catcher position.   If he can't hit enough to be valuable as a platoon DH/1Bman, and he can't catch well either... then he won't be a long term major leaguer.   But as Rutchman is more than a year away, we have time to give him a little leeway to prove one or the other. 

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sportsfan8703 Hangout Grand Counsel

sportsfan8703

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8 minutes ago, SteveA said:

Right, and what we are really giving him in that case  is another year to also prove that his bat can play at the MLB level at a non-catcher position.   If he can't hit enough to be valuable as a platoon DH/1Bman, and he can't catch well either... then he won't be a long term major leaguer.   But as Rutchman is more than a year away, we have time to give him a little leeway to prove one or the other. 

The best case scenario for us is that he excels offensively in his playing time that he'll get before AR debuts.  In that case, we'd trade him as a "catcher".  

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Tony-OH Hangout Grand Counsel

Tony-OH

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1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Given the evidence you cited, I’d say you are a master of understatement with the bolded part.   But, it can’t hurt to give him 2020 to develop further.    

No arguments from me. I think Sisco should get a decent share of the catching duties along with Severino. Maybe not a pure platoon, but close. This is the year to do it because next year I want to see some improvement in wins-losses..

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

No arguments from me. I think Sisco should get a decent share of the catching duties along with Severino. Maybe not a pure platoon, but close. This is the year to do it because next year I want to see some improvement in wins-losses..

Agreed.    Plus there’s a good chance Rutschman is up sometime next year.

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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8 minutes ago, Legend_Of_Joey said:

I don't think there is a chance at all of that. 

You don't think he'll be up by 2021?

College catchers drafted in the top 5 since 2007.

Wieters- Drafted 2007 made MLB debut in 2009.

Posey- Drafted 2008 made MLB debut in 2009.

Sanchez- Drafted 2009 made MLB debut in 2013.

Zunino- Drafted 2012 made MLB debut in 2013.

Schwarber- Drafted 2014 made MLB debut in 2015.

Bart- Drafted 2018 was in AA in 2019.

I think Bart makes the majors in 2020.  I'd say recent history points to AR being up in 2021.

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Legend_Of_Joey Hangout Grand Counsel

Legend_Of_Joey

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3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

You don't think he'll be up by 2021?

College catchers drafted in the top 5 since 2007.

Wieters- Drafted 2007 made MLB debut in 2009.

Posey- Drafted 2008 made MLB debut in 2009.

Sanchez- Drafted 2009 made MLB debut in 2013.

Zunino- Drafted 2012 made MLB debut in 2013.

Schwarber- Drafted 2014 made MLB debut in 2015.

Bart- Drafted 2018 was in AA in 2019.

I think Bart makes the majors in 2020.  I'd say recent history points to AR being up in 2021.

When Frobby said "next year," I was thinking the 2020 season. 

I could see him coming up late in 2021, unless he needs to "work on plate discipline" until he figures it out just after the service time issue is done.

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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3 minutes ago, Legend_Of_Joey said:

When Frobby said "next year," I was thinking the 2020 season. 

I could see him coming up late in 2021, unless he needs to "work on plate discipline" until he figures it out just after the service time issue is done.

That was why I asked.  I think of 2019 as last season and 2021 as next season so that makes 2020 this season by default.

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HowAboutThat Hangout Grand Counsel

HowAboutThat

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Severino.

If he improves his defense I think he’s got a much better chance of being the backup catcher to AR than Sisco. Sisco, If his bat improves, will probably move to another position, because he’s catching is overall so bad that He will be either out of baseball completely, or find his way to a different position that plays to his strengths, whatever they are.

So I’m very interested in whether Severino can improve his defense. And a lot of his mistakes were just plain stupid. I was at the game against Texas where he had three home runs... And also threw a laser beam to second when nobody was covering. I’d like more of the former and a lot less of the latter.

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